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Double Bass Fingerboard inlays
- Thread starter crl0078
- Start date
I did it last night at our gig. Repeatedly. Also with a sax, a guitar and a trumpet. Seemed to be reasonably in tune, however none of us had a strobe tuner to know for absolute certainty.
Repeatedly, with a digital piano in a quiet room? If so, I'm really glad for you, but you'll have to forgive my skepticism because in my experience, most dot players do not play with good intonation. At best, they get PAINFULLY close. You may well be the exception and if so, that's great! There's definitely more than one way to successfully play the instrument.
To be fair, not everyone plays in a quiet room with a digital piano, but yeah, I usually hit it fairly close if not dead one, because the dots are there solely to visually check when I am singing and playing (and I have to concentrate on my singing intonation) or when I cannot hear myself very clearly due to the volume of the gig. Otherwise, having been trained as a violinist that was not allowed to use lines or tapes, I use my ears.
So, it sounds like you've found something that works for you, and that's really all that's important. To risk beating a dead horse, the point of the quiet room and digital piano is to give you the best chance of hearing how close you are because all too often, players think "close enough" is close enough and they're mistaken. Another good technique is to record your gigs. If you have intonation issues, on playback with headphones, you'll hear them. If your intonation is still acceptable to your ear, and your band-mates, and your teacher, then I'd say the dots work for you.
I wouldn't have the foggiest idea. I don't play for tips.
The band does, however, get a lot of repeat business and we're happy with the frequency, so I guess the venues don't mind the dots as much as some folks worry they might.
And Tom, I understand the quiet room theory. I typically rehearse on my fretless and now on my upright with a tuner available and aside from general technique, intonation is something I practice. And doing it with a tuner takes the ear out of the equation. Singing and playing bass while there are drums, guitars, a sax and trumpet and a piano is fairly difficult to do, and especially when those two things are counterpointal to one another. Dots do give me reference visually if I need it.
When I work on intonation with a tuner, (I prefer a drone) it is all about my ears being a fundamental part of the equation. Instead of looking at what the needle has to say and removing my ears from the equation, I am doing my absolute best to be in tune, and the tuner is a small reference check. If I am consistently sharp or flat on a note I will evaluate the music I am playing before and after the note in question along with my technique to see if I am missing a shift or pivot, or if I am hearing a particular note differently than I should be. Sometimes it helps to think of it in the context of the harmony that it is being played with/against, and sometime is it more beneficial to hear where that note fits in the melodic line.
I want to assume that by taking your ear out of the equation you are saying that you aren't blindly trusting what you hear to be accurate and the tuner is holding you accountable, but it also sounds like trading the dots and fretlines for the needle on the tuner. In both cases intonation is a visual exercise, not an aural one.
I wouldn't have the foggiest idea. I don't play for tips.
And Tom, I understand the quiet room theory. I typically rehearse on my fretless and now on my upright with a tuner available and aside from general technique, intonation is something I practice. And doing it with a tuner takes the ear out of the equation. Singing and playing bass while there are drums, guitars, a sax and trumpet and a piano is fairly difficult to do, and especially when those two things are counterpointal to one another. Dots do give me reference visually if I need it.
That's interesting. I sing and play the bass too, and also find it, well, sometimes well beyond my capabilities if the melody and bassline are complicated enough, but I'm working on it. I notice that I catch intonation issues very quickly when I do that, do you? In my case, I think that's because I have to have the expectation of how both parts sound together before I can come close, so, when my voice pitch or intonation fall short, I usually notice very quickly. But obviously, I found that dots were not helpful to me while playing along with a recording of the melody, slowly, then later drones, worked well of me. Now I find the singing reinforces my intonation too.
OT - Does anybody know if Edgar Meyer's fingerboard dotz/inlays were installed at his request or were they already on the board?
(Sorry if this has been answered before).
It's a bit like seeing training wheels in the Tour De France.
Thanks.
(Sorry if this has been answered before).
It's a bit like seeing training wheels in the Tour De France.
Thanks.
I can say for me they were a crutch and very hard to break out of. I STILL try and look when I go to a C on my E string and I took the marks off in late june/early july.
Myself, I wish I never put them there because if I'm trying to read a sheet, I'll lose my place and fall out of time when ever I get to a weird shift.
Myself, I wish I never put them there because if I'm trying to read a sheet, I'll lose my place and fall out of time when ever I get to a weird shift.
Jake deVilliers
Commercial User
- May 24, 2006
- 6,349
- 607
- Disclosures
- Owner of The Bass Spa, String Repairman at Long & McQuade Vancouver
From the man himself:
"The fingerboard and extension were put on by Don Robertson's Shop in Albuquerque pretty much to my specs. For instance I had them inlay the dots on all my favorite notes."
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Practicing shifting positions so that your hand and ear develop memory of note locations is the way to go.
Also, the harmonic nodes act as invisible markers.
If a particular piece has an awkward note, just use a pencil mark, by the time it has worn off, your hand will know where to go.
Also, the harmonic nodes act as invisible markers.
If a particular piece has an awkward note, just use a pencil mark, by the time it has worn off, your hand will know where to go.
Jake deVilliers
Commercial User
- May 24, 2006
- 6,349
- 607
- Disclosures
- Owner of The Bass Spa, String Repairman at Long & McQuade Vancouver
Had an interesting experience at a benefit last weekend that underlines why I do advocate for dots as a backup to feel. We were playing a benefit, and during our set, the soundman thought the bass was feeding back (turned out to be the guitarist's acoustic). He dropped my output altogether, and brought it back into the mains. So, I was onstage, without a monitor, while I was playing with two vocalists, a trumpet, an acoustic guitar, all coming out of three monitors in front of us (mine was placed directly behind me, and elevated). I had no audible monitor of my intonation, but I could feel the subwoofers were still pushing out bass. A song later we cleared up the issue, and I got monitors back.
It's instances like these that dots do come in handy.
It's instances like these that dots do come in handy.
i think starting at the octave of the string, then 5th, then 2nd octave are useful spots.
they do correspond with harmonics, so those notes themselves are no big deal, but when theres a leap up to a high E, gaguing how far it is away from D makes more sence to me than having an inlay on an E.
they do correspond with harmonics, so those notes themselves are no big deal, but when theres a leap up to a high E, gaguing how far it is away from D makes more sence to me than having an inlay on an E.
I practice without marks and put small dots on the E side of the finger board (A, B, E) for gigs. It does help when things get loud, and I need to reference them less and less over time.
A local teacher hipped me to using a paint pen instead of pencil marks or stickers. They last a long time and can be removed without too much trouble (use #0000 steel wool if it's really stubborn). In the past I've used different markings mainly to show where the octave is and some key landmarks. But the landmarks change over time depending on the use and how good I get at intonation. I put them where I need the help most.
I try not to look at the marks and don't look at where my fingers are going when I play, but it's good to have them there when neccessary. Also with paint pens, you can use different colors or just black if you want something inconspicuous.
I try not to look at the marks and don't look at where my fingers are going when I play, but it's good to have them there when neccessary. Also with paint pens, you can use different colors or just black if you want something inconspicuous.
