Double Bass Fingering Question: 1-2-(3+4) vs. 1-(2+3)-4

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I have a topic request. Just beginning with an electric upright (after playing a little bass guitar), and can't really get the 1, 2, 3+4 fingering. I find the 1, 2+3, 4 fingering easier and nearer to the interval lenght on the string (lower notes are more spaced than the higher; and so is the space betwee fingers 1-3 compared to fingers 1-2).
Is there a reason for using the 1, 2, 3+4 fingering instead of the other one?

Thank you,
Paolo

It depends on whether you mean fingering the first half step with the 3rd finger, or whether you mean fingering 1-2-4 but placing the middle finger closer to the 2 than the 4 when playing with the 4th finger. Personally, I play 1-2-4, but when playing with the 4th finger my middle finger is closer to the second finger than it is to the 4th. In my experience, people's hands want to do different things in this regard, so as long as students are playing 1-2-4 in the lower positions I don't worry too much about where their 3rd finger ends up.

If, on the other hand, you mean playing with a 1-3-4 fingering in the lower position, my hand doesn't even come close to spacing out this way, so I couldn't really recommend it. EEMMV, as always.

 

[shwashwa]

It depends on whether you mean fingering the first half step with the 3rd finger, or whether you mean fingering 1-2-4 but placing the middle finger closer to the 2 than the 4 when playing with the 4th finger. Personally, I play 1-2-4, but when playing with the 4th finger my middle finger is closer to the second finger than it is to the 4th. In my experience, people's hands want to do different things in this regard, so as long as students are playing 1-2-4 in the lower positions I don't worry too much about where their 3rd finger ends up.

If, on the other hand, you mean playing with a 1-3-4 fingering in the lower position, my hand doesn't even come close to spacing out this way, so I couldn't really recommend it. EEMMV, as always.

playing 1-3-4 in the lower positions is often referred to as the italian method, or the bille method. if im not mistaken our own marco panacia uses this method.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

playing 1-3-4 in the lower positions is often referred to as the italian method, or the bille method. if im not mistaken our own marco panacia uses this method.

I've heard and read about that name for it, just never noticed anyone actually using it. When I try to do it, my 4th finger always ends up playing flat. It's an interesting question, though, as most people who use 1-2-4 end up playing on the thumb side of 1 in order to help the reach to play in tune with 2.

 

[shwashwa]

i definitely cant do it, but i know marco does , or at least he did. he probably wouldnt change at this point in his life, but i dont know. i like 1-2-4 because from there its a small step to get into the rabbath like pivots. i cant use open hand 1-2-3-4 in the lower positions even though i do play electric bass also

 

[Paolo T.]

Thank you very much for all your answers. As a newcomer, obviously I am having postural diosyncrasies that make me appreciate the 'wrong' position. However, what I note when playing something like E-F-F#-G on the E string is this:

- I play the F with finger 1; pitch is found by hear, but also checked with a tuner.
- At this point, I could play F# with finger 2, slightly rotating my wrist to reach the correct pitch. However, this would cause fingers 3 and 4 to be lifted, in a slightly uncomfortable position.
- I could instead play F# with fingers 2 and 3, withoug rotating my wrist. Fingers 1, 2 and 3 would be pressed on the string. Finger 4 would be slightly lifted, with no sense of discomfort. (Maybe the finger indipendence of the piano player is working better with my pinky?)
- I can play G by slightly extending finger 4; all four fingers are comfortably pressed on the string.

Obviously I need some lessons, but my personal physiology seems to like this odd fingering scheme. Plus, the 3/4 fingerboard might make some positions easier than on a real double bass.

Paolo

 

[shwashwa]

Thank you very much for all your answers. As a newcomer, obviously I am having postural diosyncrasies that make me appreciate the 'wrong' position. However, what I note when playing something like E-F-F#-G on the E string is this:

- I play the F with finger 1; pitch is found by hear, but also checked with a tuner.
- At this point, I could play F# with finger 2, slightly rotating my wrist to reach the correct pitch. However, this would cause fingers 3 and 4 to be lifted, in a slightly uncomfortable position.
- I could instead play F# with fingers 2 and 3, withoug rotating my wrist. Fingers 1, 2 and 3 would be pressed on the string. Finger 4 would be slightly lifted, with no sense of discomfort. (Maybe the finger indipendence of the piano player is working better with my pinky?)
- I can play G by slightly extending finger 4; all four fingers are comfortably pressed on the string.

Obviously I need some lessons, but my personal physiology seems to like this odd fingering scheme. Plus, the 3/4 fingerboard might make some positions easier than on a real double bass.

Paolo

the lowest position on the E string is one of the hardest places to play on the bass. i personally would work out my finger spacing on the G string with maybe the pinky on C. probably most people need to do some kind of slight rolling or pivoting to play from low F, F#,G in tune

 

[Reiska]

IMO all of that depends on the size of the players hand and the scale lenght. I use a lot of pivoting and rolling sort of motion and try not to stretch my hand or use extensions, if the musical situation doesn`t force me to. This way I can play a wholetone between 1-4, 1-3 or 2-4. 4th and 3rd finger are mostly helped by the previous finger, ie 3rd is helped by 2nd and 4th by 3rd. While playing pizzicato this gives a fat and lyrical sound and if I want that for 2nd finger I press the 1st down too, close to it ( not semitone away ). Otherwise, for a different sound and faster stuff, its one finger at a time and 1-2-4 fingering only.

EDIT: Sorry if this got off-topic ( Italian vs german fingering debate for pedagoques only? )

 

[Paolo T.]

playing 1-3-4 in the lower positions is often referred to as the italian method, or the bille method. if im not mistaken our own marco panacia uses this method.

By watching at some videos of Marco Panascia on the tube, it indeed seems that he is using 1-(2-3)-4 on the first positions. Like me, he has quite short fingers, and that might explain something.

This way I can play a wholetone between 1-4, 1-3 or 2-4.

What I'm starting to discover is how much more flexible is double bass fingering, compared to bass guitar (where I simply use one finger per fret). Hand's size, playing position, music style, all require for different techniques. Having followed Stefano Scodanibbio for years, I know that very often technique is a personal matter that has to be reinvented every day.

Paolo

 

[shwashwa]

By watching at some videos of Marco Panascia on the tube, it indeed seems that he is using 1-(2-3)-4 on the first positions. Like me, he has quite short fingers, and that might explain something.




Paolo

i think what it explains is that he grew up in italy

 

[Reiska]

It`s a can of worms really if it gets to orthodox vs contemporary technique wrestling match.

 

[Paolo T.]

i think what it explains is that he grew up in italy

What is funny is that the so-called 'German fingering' is actually Italian (Gaetano Negri, Napoli, late XIX century), but it is not used in Italy. What we call 'Italian fingering' is the 'school of Parma' (Asioli, Hiserich, Montanari, from the end of the XVIII to the end of the XIX century). I just discovered that another contemporary Italian bassist (Vito Liuzzi) supports the 1-2-3-4 fingering. Any other choice?

Paolo

 

[ctrlzjones]

playing 1-3-4 in the lower positions is often referred to as the italian method, or the bille method.

I do it in all positions 'til thumb. Combining the 2&3 as 'one-middle-finger' seemed always to be a natural choice for me. And as I never had no one telling me otherwise, I am happy until today.
My Genome is of german heritage though ;-)

 

[gerry grable]

I do it in all positions 'til thumb. Combining the 2&3 as 'one-middle-finger' seemed always to be a natural choice for me. And as I never had no one telling me otherwise, I am happy until today.
My Genome is of german heritage though ;-)

To each his own, but my left hand is just made (or was formed) to play 1-2-4. I don't see the reason for skipping the second, strongest finger and playing 1-3-4. Even with 1-2-3-4 fingering, which I often use, I have to be sure I don't play the 3 out of tune.

 

[David Potts]

I can't remember his exact words but I remember discussing this years ago with Tom Martin who is really into Bottesini's music. He only made sense of this issue of 1 3 4 after studying Bottesini's original method. GB used 1 4 for both a tone and a 1/2 tone but used 1 3 4 as passing notes in a rolling action. Help, Tom !!

DP