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Fingerstyle sounds terrible after playing with a pick!

#101
Jon Xavier said:
This whole debate is nuts. News flash! Via different pick materials, location played along strings, and tonal controls, one can get everything finger playing offers plus all the ordinary benefits attributed to pick playing.
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I'm honestly not sure why so many people are so passionate about pick playing, I just don't get it at all. Are you like all cardiac surgeons or something, callouses on the right hand would inhibit your ability to save lives? If so, I'll conceed my points, but for everyone else, picks are limiting plain and simple.

I can get the same pick sound with my right hand fingers technique, so at a fundamental level, you do not gain anything.

Consider what you are doing when you play with a pick. You are taking 5 versatile picking/plucking apendages and replacing them with one, a single piece of plastic. It makes no sense on that level. Can't play simultaneous double stops with a pick. Can't play a warm, fat and round, ambiguous, tone that creeps up on you. It's always the full range of harmonics for the note you've picked, like a primitive harpischord.

I hope you're not too offended, just mildly. I feel an almost duty, especially to the student players coming up, to put all of my thoughts down for the record. If all you play in is a surf rock band or whatever band enjoys that sound, it's limiting if you ever want to branch out and play other music. You'll not see a pick playing bass player in a stage band on a cruise ship or pit orchestra of a playhouse for instance. That kind of music, the kind that pays rather consistently, will call for the subtle nuance of fingers.

Ultimately I'm not trying to be too elitist and I've heard pick playing done very tastefully and I believe it has a place, it's just a pretty limiting place for bass players especially.
 
#103
I play 95% with RH fingers (and thumb) on both guitar and bass, so I say this as one who's not habituated to pick playing: One can be a great bass player while playing with a pick. Others have listed the many great players who use this technique ... pretending they somehow don't exist or don't matter just seems silly. Joe Osborn played on countless hits as part of "the Wrecking Crew" out on the west coast (and so was "payed rather consistently" I do believe). Carol Kaye is another obvious example. Paul McCartney, probably the most famous (and most well payed) bass player on the planet plays with a pick - and was hugely influential, obviously. The record is unequivocal: Great bass can be played using a pick.

I use the "index finger as a pick' technique frequently, and it does approximate the feel and sound of a pick ... but it's only approximate, not the thing itself. There are sounds and feels one can get with a pick that are not as fully achievable using just fingers. For me personally, it's an easy matter to switch over to a pick if needed,as I spent years learning guitar with a pick (though I started and will probably finish as a fingers player). As has been said, it's useful to have both approaches at your "fingertips".

I prefer using fingers, and I prefer the sound I get using fingers. It's probably a good thing to learn that style to begin with, ideally ... I think. But we don't live in an ideal world, and beyond that, for some people a pick just plain works better. C'est la vie, vive la difference!

BTW - One can easily do double stops using a pick. Just use the pick plus middle and/or ring finger, and there you are. Standard technique for guitarists, which transfers perfectly well to the bass.

:bassist:
 
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#104
Capt.Obvious said:
I can get the same pick sound with my right hand fingers technique, so at a fundamental level, you do not gain anything.
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No you can't, but I guess it's close enough for the audience. Even a fingernail, which does sound a bit like a pick, only sounds like a light pick with a rounded edge. A thick pick with a point will sound much different. roughen up the edges with sandpaper and you get yet another sound that is absolutely impossible to achieve with fingers. (some picks come with rough edges just for this reason). Different thicknesses, shapes, materials, bevels, etc. all have a subtle effect on pick sound, as does grip and angle. They aren't as versatile as fingers, but they do provide a pallet of unique sounds.

In any event, it's not like something anyone actually has to choose. It is not difficult to pick up or put down a pick.
 
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#105
ninjaaron said:
No you can't, but I guess it's close enough for the audience. Even a fingernail, which does sound a bit like a pick, only sounds like a light pick with a rounded edge. A thick pick with a point will sound much different. roughen up the edges with sandpaper and you get yet another sound that is absolutely impossible to achieve with fingers. (some picks come with rough edges just for this reason). Different thicknesses, shapes, materials, bevels, etc. all have a subtle effect on pick sound, as does grip and angle. They aren't as versatile as fingers, but they do provide a pallet of unique sounds.

In any event, it's not like something anyone actually has to choose. It is not difficult to pick up or put down a pick.
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Fair enough Ninja, there's much I do not know about pick playing or picks in general. Ultimately I agree that's it's not tremendously difficult to pick up, if needed.
 
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#106
Yeah, while I don't agree that you can get a real pick sound with fingers, which to me is the authentic sound of rock'n'roll bass in a variety of genres, you can definitely get a strong percussive, harmonically rich tone with various finger-style techniques which can also be appropriate to more aggressive styles of music. It's not like there's any style of music you NEED a pick to play -- it's just another brush to paint with; one of many. Some people play bass with a bow, a drumstick, or even an electric drill. It's all valid if it works for what you're doing (not that I'm particularly interested in drills and drumsticks as a means to move strings, but I don't judge).

On the other hand I would be inclined to say that the bassist (or guitarist) who never learns fingerstyle is missing out on more than someone who doesn't learn to use a pick -- not that some of the great pick-only players have ever had trouble expressing themselves.
 
#107
I like both finger and pick tones. They each have their place. I don't want them to sound alike either. It's good to have a lot of tones at your finger tips without having to tweek your amp. Master both (and then go on to slap or whatever technique you choose next). Use them all when you need them.
 
#108
Ninja, I don't care if you or anyone else needs a pick to accomplish certain sounds, but Capt.Obvious was right that it is possible to get pretty much any sound you get with a pick with your fingers. Just because you can't, doesn't mean other people can't. As far as you comment about a finger nail sounding like a light pick with rounded edges.... well that all depends on how thick a persons fingernails are, how you cut them, the angle and place they are picking at, etc....

Take a few years & experiment more on achieving different tones with you fingers & you'll understand that a lot more is possible than you think.

& you may like a picked sound for Rock N Roll, but Rock N Roll bass started with an upright, so that if anything is the Authentic way. Like I said in another post, I don't care what you or anyone else does just don't be insecure about or try to tell someone that something they have already accomplished is impossible.
 
#109
I play with both pick and fingers, sometimes in the same song. I use the pick as a volume boost, and I'll palm the pick when playing with my fingers. For example, I play bass in a Tom Petty tribute band, and when we play American Girl I'll start off with a pick to make those high notes at the beginning really stand out, then when the singer comes in I'll quickly palm the pick and hit the A on the E string, fifth fret. I do something similar on Rebels and Refugee. Breakdown is all fingers, and Here Comes My Girl and the rockers like I Need To Know are all pick. There's no right or wrong here, it's different tools for the job.
 
#111
Can any of you kids talk like an individual or are you all clones these days? Seriously if you look on any chat site, comment section, etc... you all use the exact same sayings, trying to act cool & fit in on the internet. Pick up the bass & practice kid!
 
#112
Vinny Tomassetti said:
Can any of you kids talk like an individual or are you all clones these days? Seriously if you look on any chat site, comment section, etc... you all use the exact same sayings, trying to act cool & fit in on the internet. Pick up the bass & practice kid!
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Is this intended to insult everyone who has posted in this thread, or just some of us?
 
#113
If someone gets insulted by this they need to evaluate their life. Be an individual, talk like yourself, don't tell people they can't do something because you can't, leave the ego at the door, etc.....
 
#114
Vinny Tomassetti said:
If someone gets insulted by this they need to evaluate their life. Be an individual, talk like yourself, don't tell people they can't do something because you can't, leave the ego at the door, etc.....
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Go back and re-read your previous post, in which you referred to us (or some subset of us) as "kids" who are behaving like "clones" who are just "trying to act cool & fit in on the internet." Do you not see why this might be interpreted as insulting?
 
#115
Lobster, you wouldn't get insulted if you didn't seem to feel that you fit into that category of being a "clone" of everyone else, or "trying to act cool & fit in on the internet". As far as calling people "kids", I call everyone kid or kids including my own friends older & younger, it's part of who I am as an individual & I make no apologies for it. I don't feel the need to edit the way I naturally speak to fit in anywhere.
 
#116
Vinny Tomassetti said:
Ninja, I don't care if you or anyone else needs a pick to accomplish certain sounds, but Capt.Obvious was right that it is possible to get pretty much any sound you get with a pick with your fingers. Just because you can't, doesn't mean other people can't ...
Take a few years & experiment more on achieving different tones with you fingers & you'll understand that a lot more is possible than you think.
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ninjaaron said:
Vids or it didn't happen.
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Yeah. I've been playing 95% with fingers for decades - also having spent many years learning guitar with a pick - and I do the "index finger as pick" thing with some frequency (especially on guitar, but also sometimes on bass). As I said earlier, I can approximate the sound and feel of a pick that way, but it's definitely not 100% there. I've never heard anyone else really get the full on pick sound that way either. A finger is just not configured the same as a pick. It is admittedly a subjective thing, but I do think there's some difference there. We're spitting hairs on this though. The overriding point is that a pick can be useful in playing the bass - the facts on this are clear. It is, again, nice to be able to do both fingers and picks ... but either one on its own can get the job done.
 
#117
davy4575 said:
whats the best finger or pick for metal
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It depends on the type of metal. If you want a lot of "attack" then picks usually work better. But if you want a beefier sound then the fingers also work better. Personally I just use the Flicking technique(putting index and middle together and flicking them back and forth) to sound like I am playing with a pick.

It would be better for you to do both if you are looking at metal. Faster paced songs might suit the pick more, but the slower more brutal songs would go well with fingers.
 
#118
DerekT said:
It depends on the type of metal. If you want a lot of "attack" then picks usually work better. But if you want a beefier sound then the fingers also work better. Personally I just use the Flicking technique(putting index and middle together and flicking them back and forth) to sound like I am playing with a pick.

It would be better for you to do both if you are looking at metal. Faster paced songs might suit the pick more, but the slower more brutal songs would go well with fingers.
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lol. just part of the whats the best ________ for metal
 

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