Firing/Hiring Keyboards - Why so Painful?

[andruca]

I've been saving the hassle for the past 20 years with pre-recorded tracks. Used to do them on a Roland GeooveBox in the beginning, now I almost do it all by editing audio. Truth is I've never ran into really competent (non-annoying) keyboard people really, except in the hired hand type of gigs. Surprisingly many ignore how to fit in a rock band, and too often they're lacking in the team play dept.

 

[40Hz]

I think it’s in the nature of the beast for the keyboard crowd that most aren’t very good team players in the rock world. I originally come from classic prog where you learn that lesson early, and get it rammed home repeatedly.

The biggest issue I run into with keyboard players is that most are trained primarily to be soloists. And most piano instructors only pay lip service to teaching their students ensemble playing. And that usually means that whenver you’re working with a keyboard player they expect their band to revolve around their instrument. And if that doesn’t happen about 85% go passive-aggressive on you and only want to coast along playing over chord changes.

I can offer no suggestions for a solution to that dilemma.

Now that I’m thinking about it, the only two rock keyboard players I can think of who were also really good ensemble players were Garth Hudson (The Band) and Benmont Tench with Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. Both of them knew when to step into the spotlight and when to settle back into the overall mix. That’s pretty rare for a keyboard player.

Hmm…only two out of several hundred… that’s not very good odds.

 

[andruca]

I originally come from classic prog where you learn that lesson early, and get it rammed home repeatedly.

Exactly what got me past the fed up point with them.

 

[QORC]

Good keyboard players are almost always in high demand so they can be hard to find, or when you do find them, they can be a pain to be in a band with. So what you're generally left with is some PIA in your band, or you have to hire the wanna-be, the lazy, the worthless. I think if you really need a good keyboard player, who can also do backing harmonies, you can be in for a long, hard slog trying to find one

 

[brianrost]

It's just as difficult with any position on the band. The only reason a particular position might seem hard to fill is that they may be in more demand in your area.

Anyone who can play keys and sing can always work solo and make as much or more money compared to being in a band. If they play another instrument as well, they will always be in high demand.

 

[lfmn16]

Why is it so difficult?

It's simple. Playing keyboards well is hard. There are few that make the effort. The ones that are any good already have gigs.

 

[JimmyM]

The two hardest people in bands to replace...the singer and the keyboardist. Keyboardists are easy to replace if you have money to pay them, otherwise forget it. Replacing a singer is a very difficult trick to pull off even if you do have money, especially if the band has a little notoriety.

 

[khutch]

Our church band uses both a grand piano and an electronic keyboard in addition to guitars, drums, and winds, strings. I guess it's a cultural difference but we have tons of keys players who know their stuff and play well with others. We've had nothing but trouble finding lead guitars, one of our bassists switched to guitar since bass players are slightly easier to find. So if you have any connections to local churches you might try there.

Our biggest keys problem is that they've just replaced a 20 year old keyboard that was ready for the junk heap with a new model that none of them can figure out....

 

[JimmyM]

Our church band uses both a grand piano and an electronic keyboard in addition to guitars, drums, and winds, strings. I guess it's a cultural difference but we have tons of keys players who know their stuff and play well with others. We've had nothing but trouble finding lead guitars, one of our bassists switched to guitar since bass players are slightly easier to find. So if you have any connections to local churches you might try there.

I bolded the relevant part. Of course in a church, keyboardists are easier to find. There are no other demands on them other than to play piano and organ well, and other factors are irrelevant. Nobody cares if they're an 80 year old lady or a fat 50 year old guy who can't sing. Plus the music lends itself to featuring keyboardists, and it's something they can do once or twice a week that isn't going to interfere with their lives all that much.

 

[bassliner50]

In my world, keyboard players especially pianists are hard to find, they are typically very independent, musically literate and display good habits. Without an accurate, scientific survey, it seems, 30 guitarists to 1 good keyboardist available. Pianist plus bass=almost heaven.

 

[khutch]

You find all kinds of people at church. You've correctly characterized some of them. In a large church, ours is just under 1000, you will find all kinds of musicians. We have more keys players than opportunities for them to play.

I showed up for rehearsal last Sunday morning with no idea how to play Go Tell It On The Mountain, a song we had no practice recording of and which just seemed unbearably boring to play on a bass guitar. Then the pianist launched into his take on it and it just become a bluesy, jazzy jam session between the band and the congregation which they clearly loved. The same guy led us in a pre-service jam on Smoke On The Water a few years ago. And last Sunday when the keyboardist had to sing in the choir anthem and the choir pianist took over the piano they handed him the sheet music and asked him to play the strings part on the keyboard and he did it perfectly with 5 minutes practice.

Yeah, there's plenty of 80 year old church ladies on keys out there but there are plenty of other's too and you mighty not be able to keep up with some of those church ladies when they let their hair down. Some of them have a past, you know....

If you can't find the keyboardist you want in the places you normally look it is time to look somewhere else.

 

[EastCoastThump]

Talented and committed ensemble keys players? If they're driven by money, few bands are as lucrative as the kinds of gigs keys players can cover solo. If they're driven by musical challenge, most popular bands' keys parts tend to be more constraining than challenging.

And if they're willing and able to play cover band gigs, they're good ensemble players, and they're able to convincingly cover a wide range of genres/tones? They're probably already working in a heavily booked event bands for decent money (and on the sub lists for a bunch more). They may also be doing pit work. They're probably teaching. And they probably still also have a number of active side gigs going.

 

[LBS-bass]

Thank you all for your input. Sounds like this is going to be difficult, if not impossible. I have had two responses; one from a guitar player and one from a member of this forum who, sadly, is not quite close enough to me to make it work. I have to get back to the guitar player today and figure out what to tell him after I listen to the clips he sent. I imagine we'll start doing auditions after the first of the year, but we need to concentrate on rehearsing for this gig we have on the books which is in late January so I don't know if we'll be able to get the full band out on another night to audition him.

Bringing in another guitarist is an option. It will change our sound to a point, and it will definitely change our musical direction. Our originals would be fine without keys but for covers we've really been hoping to incorporate more R&B but that's not really going to work very well without a good keys player. So maybe that's the next conversation we all need to sit down and have.

 

[gln1955]

After reading this thread, I'm going to give our keyboard player a big hug. We are lucky enough to have a keyboardist who's been playing rock keys since the 60's. He knows what he needs to, does it well and has great equipment. We do covers and build the set list from songs that feature keys, so we do stuff that the average cover bands without a versatile keyboardist can't. It works well.

The only problem is, he's been doing this since the 60's, so he's getting up there. In fact, the band has been dead in the water the past month because he just had a hip replacement.

 

[LBS-bass]

Yeah, I've been very lucky in the past. I've worked with some great and versatile players who were easy to deal with and willing to play whatever we needed. I keep reminding myself that I'm getting back into this after a long hiatus and a lot has changed since the last time I was auditioning keys- and I was in a very large metropolitan area then, as well. This area seems to be a very dead zone for music. I see the same Craigslist ads going up from the same people over and over; it seems like no one can find what they are looking for here. It is a (very) long commute to a major city and since I'm semi-retired I'm starting to think that I'll do better to look for future opportunities there, especially if I ever want to make any money with this again.

 

[bherman]

Yeah, I've been very lucky in the past. I've worked with some great and versatile players who were easy to deal with and willing to play whatever we needed. I keep reminding myself that I'm getting back into this after a long hiatus and a lot has changed since the last time I was auditioning keys- and I was in a very large metropolitan area then, as well. This area seems to be a very dead zone for music. I see the same Craigslist ads going up from the same people over and over; it seems like no one can find what they are looking for here. It is a (very) long commute to a major city and since I'm semi-retired I'm starting to think that I'll do better to look for future opportunities there, especially if I ever want to make any money with this again.

Only thing I have add (other than my sympathy) is that I played with a guitarist for a while who used a PRS guitar hooked up to a synth rig of some kind. He had a range of presets including a B3, that actually worked pretty well. He didn't have the worlds greatest chops but made up for it with versatility. As I recall, he spent a lot of time working it all out so it might be hard to get someone to do this if they don't have the gear and the motivation.

 

[john_g]

In my last band (rock covers, and likely much less keys than the OP's band) we resorted to backing tracks for any keys. We didnt want Rick Wakeman, just someone that could do whats needed but we couldnt find it. As others said here, they seem to be used to playing unaccompanied and its hard to find someone to fit into a band.

 

[Stephen Hurley]

I will add one thing from earlier; if you got out and play keys with a rock band the way you did playing solo, it's going to sound way too busy. Subtly is an art when it comes to playing keys in a rock band. More than frequently, less is more. I sometimes refrain from playing every note of the chord, as playing the root note and a 3rd or 5th could fit much better. Most solo keyboard players don't want to take the time to adjust their style. Especially organ, in which you have massive low-end capabilities. You have to be careful not to sonically step on other people's toes.

 

[DavC]

i've played piano/key from age 6 ... just turned 60 ... ( trumpet at 8 , gtr at 12 , bass at 13 , etc , etc )

most classically trained pianists couldn't / wouldn't do the job ... they don't know how to 'jam' , they just Read ..!

i switched to theory and jazz studies after 10 years of classical ... which helped me learned how to improvise and ' play by ear ' ...

for me , getting the right 'sounds' and 'signature parts' for songs was the Fun part ...!!! because just playing chords is easy enough for any chimp ..!!

but long ago i decided whatever instrument or genre i played , it was going to sound like ME when i played whatever ..!! i have my own style , keys or bass ... yes i'll get 'those parts' , but the rest will be me .!

if you want a robot , then go home , get on your computer, and program those parts ..!

you need to be clear right up front with what you expect ..! which would be no problem for me at all ..
and yes , a large percentage of keyboard players really just don't understand the job of playing in a band , and playing nice with others ..! in my case , when i did start playing keys/bass with others it was in 'pit orchestras' or ' stage band ' stuff , where there was still sheet music and a Director to follow ..?!

being able to play 'exact parts ' , then solo freely does take more than average skills ..!

and the opposite is true with those players ( B3 ) that just play organ ' by ear ' ... they just jam ... and rarely wanna learn how to program keys to get the right sounds , or they can't read music/charts/chords , or they don't play piano ..! regardless of what your might think ... playing piano / organ / synths are quite different ..! kinda like assuming all guitars players are also good bass players .. !??

and Yes ... our keys are costly , usually heavy , and a bit delicate to move ... and a pita to setup/tear down multi key midi'd rigs ... which there is rarely stage room for . ! that's why i gave up on the real B3/Leslie about 35+ years ago .. !

happy hunting .. !

 

[Joebarnes]

My keys player comes from a jazz background, and he's playing modern country with us; I think the hang keeps him around. He actually has had quite a challenge adapting to a more country style (he still slips into Jazz mode on us on occasion; especially when soloing).

Keys truly are a hard instrument to find or replace, we got our guy because the drummer and he are very close friends; otherwise, it wouldn't happen and if he decides to go elsewhere, I have no doubt we will likely not be able to replace him.

It might be easier to get another guitar player and buy a couple of those Electro-Harmonix keys and organ pedals - they seem to copy enough of the sound in the mix. Best of luck in your search. I think keys are the hardest instrument to find or replace, followed closely by harmony (few do true harmony singing well) and lead singers (lots of people think they can sing, a lot fewer actually can).