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Firing/Hiring Keyboards - Why so Painful?
- Thread starter LBS-bass
- Start date
Most of the keyboard players in my area, if they aren't doing solo gigs, are pretty much free lance minded, and don't want to get tied down with one band, or do anything that might impact their solo gig or other commitments they have. They are usually school trained musicians who write out what I would consider " fake book arrangements ", and plan on reading those on the gig. That's about all the commitment you will get from these guys. They live in a different world, and ultimately would rather be playing Jazz. The last keyboard guy we tried to get interested in our band wanted to know if he would get paid for rehearsing. Pretty much sums it up.
This was sort of our first keyboard player, except he was more in the mold of the piano bar, Billy Joel/Elton John kind of player. He is very good in that narrow place but can't stretch beyond it and has no real interest in trying. ZERO interest in jazz or blues, as well, which was a problem for me as I would really like to incorporate some Steely Dan into our set list and he does not like to play those sorts of chords. Going to be hard to do that with just a second guitar
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I'll try to keep it short, but as someone that plays keys as well as bass, I could type paragraphs on this subject. Now, I'm by no means the greatest pianist / organist, but I'm pretty good as a keyboardist and linking all the different elements together. In my opinion / perspective as a keyboardist:
1 - There isn't many of us: I pretty much have endless pick of bands to join. I gotta like the band members (some ppl dont care if it's just a payday to them), have your stuff together, have something to offer whether it's $$ gigs or tons of fun. The real good players don't want to join a start up or unknown band. They already have tons of contacts that are gig ready with good pay to sub with if they don't have gigs with their primary band
2 - Bands have unrealistic expectations (especially cover bands): Cover bands generally want you to recreate every obscure studio magic sound on every track. Originals want to add something extra, so are like "hey let's add keys," but have no clue what exactly they want or have the sonic space between the 8 guitars in the band.
3 - Keys can be a full time job: So, when I'm not gigging / rehearsing I'm pretty much writing a lot of my sounds and patches from the ground up. Covers I have to figure out all the parts, decide what one's are best and make the song, and program them. Originals are a lil faster, just write my own parts.
4 - It takes a lot of gear and $ - Sure, tech has helped shrink rigs, lighten the weight, and make it more affordable. Could I get away with 1 board? Sure, but see points 2 & 3 (programming one board or midi to computer takes time on the back end). I pretty much gig with 2 boards min (workstation & dedicated organ) and some gadgetry, any more isn't worth what the gig pays or has stage space for.
5 - Moving gear sucks: Takes a lot of time and work breaking down and setting up. So no, I'm not gonna practice 3x a week with a band or do that gig for no pay.
6 - Material: has to keep me engaged and not boring. I generally stay away from music that isn't "keyboardcentric," or at least can accommodate keys parts. So most rock & metal are out. My favorite lol with covers is when a song has a keys hook, and the guitarist doesn't want to relinquish it.
So, hopefully that's not tldr. There's a lot more I could tie into all these, and even more to expand on. These are all subjective to me, and always a lot of factors for each band. Could I alleviate some points of 3 & 4 on myself? Sure, but I enjoy the sound design, most genres are tough to do with one board, and I try to bring the best I can to the table (Whether it's in the sounds I produce, or learning all those parts to a cover.) Also, I like to think my dedication and attention to detail is what puts me on par with skilled players, when it comes to the call backs I get.
1 - There isn't many of us: I pretty much have endless pick of bands to join. I gotta like the band members (some ppl dont care if it's just a payday to them), have your stuff together, have something to offer whether it's $$ gigs or tons of fun. The real good players don't want to join a start up or unknown band. They already have tons of contacts that are gig ready with good pay to sub with if they don't have gigs with their primary band
2 - Bands have unrealistic expectations (especially cover bands): Cover bands generally want you to recreate every obscure studio magic sound on every track. Originals want to add something extra, so are like "hey let's add keys," but have no clue what exactly they want or have the sonic space between the 8 guitars in the band.
3 - Keys can be a full time job: So, when I'm not gigging / rehearsing I'm pretty much writing a lot of my sounds and patches from the ground up. Covers I have to figure out all the parts, decide what one's are best and make the song, and program them. Originals are a lil faster, just write my own parts.
4 - It takes a lot of gear and $ - Sure, tech has helped shrink rigs, lighten the weight, and make it more affordable. Could I get away with 1 board? Sure, but see points 2 & 3 (programming one board or midi to computer takes time on the back end). I pretty much gig with 2 boards min (workstation & dedicated organ) and some gadgetry, any more isn't worth what the gig pays or has stage space for.
5 - Moving gear sucks: Takes a lot of time and work breaking down and setting up. So no, I'm not gonna practice 3x a week with a band or do that gig for no pay.
6 - Material: has to keep me engaged and not boring. I generally stay away from music that isn't "keyboardcentric," or at least can accommodate keys parts. So most rock & metal are out. My favorite lol with covers is when a song has a keys hook, and the guitarist doesn't want to relinquish it.
So, hopefully that's not tldr. There's a lot more I could tie into all these, and even more to expand on. These are all subjective to me, and always a lot of factors for each band. Could I alleviate some points of 3 & 4 on myself? Sure, but I enjoy the sound design, most genres are tough to do with one board, and I try to bring the best I can to the table (Whether it's in the sounds I produce, or learning all those parts to a cover.) Also, I like to think my dedication and attention to detail is what puts me on par with skilled players, when it comes to the call backs I get.
I would say most he came up in a R&B, pop, jazz, or gospel band lay off the left hand except to stab in support of their bassist. Of highly trained means classically trained for solo and Orchestra work then adjustments may or might not come with experienceWith a serious bassist in the band, what highly trained keyboard player wants to be content to keep their left hand at or above Middle C?The trade-off sucks. Keep looking for the right one.
What? This makes no sense at all. When I retire, I'll have time for 3 or 4 bands, AND still go on vacation.
She just doesn't want to play in YOUR band.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
It all goes to show, if you can become competent on keys, and buy a decent one, you make yourself infinitely more desirable for a band.
I don't think duct-taping the keys players' left hand behind his/her's back flies anymore in this day and age unless they're playing an old school wooden upright.
The better quality upscale boards (synths and keys ) have where you can split off the lower part and change the octave on that portion to higher.
So, for instance, you can be playing a treble part with your left hand and adding such things as guitar or trumpet riffs etc etc . with your right (which is also in the higher octave).
The better quality upscale boards (synths and keys ) have where you can split off the lower part and change the octave on that portion to higher.
So, for instance, you can be playing a treble part with your left hand and adding such things as guitar or trumpet riffs etc etc . with your right (which is also in the higher octave).
What? This makes no sense at all. When I retire, I'll have time for 3 or 4 bands, AND still go on vacation.
She just doesn't want to play in YOUR band.
Nope, she's a retired math teacher and has lots of private students to tutor. This was finals week. She had a full roster of students that day and was flying out for a two week trip to see one of her kids over the holiday the following morning.
She may, in fact, not want to play in the band, but I don't doubt for a minute that her busy life factors into that. Lots of retired people have very active lives.
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In a similar vein, I've jammed/auditioned with a few bands led by a pianist. Each one stuggled to function in a band situation. The songs were written solo, and they couldn't or didn't want to adapt.
After reading all of this, I'm realizing I'm blessed. My keyboard player, and coincidentally one of my best friends, is an absolute gem of a musician. He's a prog rock guy, so his chops are fantastic. His attention to detail when creating patches is amazing and he fills out so much of the sound for us with the little things like horns, swells, organ, synth pads, etc. On top of it all, he reads music and goes to school to study voice, so he is always harmonizing.
To OP, not to be snarky, but you'll be better served by a guitar player. While it may not be ideal, at least now you can potentially play keys or play those parts and not leave a gaping, guitar sized hole in the mix.
To OP, not to be snarky, but you'll be better served by a guitar player. While it may not be ideal, at least now you can potentially play keys or play those parts and not leave a gaping, guitar sized hole in the mix.
I've found that coverbands don't have enough real keys material to keep a real keys player interested. Also, real key players tend to have tons of equipment like 88 keys, multiple boards, amps, racks, processors [there went half the real estate], and then they invariably already have keyboard or piano tunes they want you to learn, etc. Kinda high maintenance for a non-keys driven band.
Find a talented guy/gal that doubles. Chances are, if you find a really talented multi-instrumentalist, they *may* accept the challenge of adding keys [another instrument in their arsenal] to their palette. Most B3/Organ tunes/sounds for rock are not complicated, and as you say mostly about accents and swells. Good keyboards are available now under $500 new, with stereo Leslie sims that work, good Rhodes and Leads with usable piano patches, and feed straight to a PA, or easily amplified with a ~$150 Peavey/Kustom/Crate 100W amp. Check out the Yamaha MX49 or MX61, does it all. Multi-instrumentalists have that knack of transferring what they already know to new instruments quickly. If you find the right guy, he'll jump in just for the opportunity to learn a new instrument, add gear, and you get a bonus sax, violin, 2nd guitar, or voice to boot.
Much like good horn players, keyboardists are actually in demand and can call their own shots most of the time. The good ones are out gigging; the bad ones don't generally last long playing in bands.
I've actually got a lot of mileage out of being one of half a dozen players in my town. I'm only a few steps up from hunt and peck, but I do backing vocals and guitar and I'll turn my hand to anything. All the others are either full time function players, running their own bands, or only do piano and won't play synth/organ or anything keyboard-y. I bought a cheap Roland, did some digging into sound creation, and learnt a few quick and nasty inversions - now I'm quite happy to play whatever is put in front of me and I get a bunch of gigs.
I've actually got a lot of mileage out of being one of half a dozen players in my town. I'm only a few steps up from hunt and peck, but I do backing vocals and guitar and I'll turn my hand to anything. All the others are either full time function players, running their own bands, or only do piano and won't play synth/organ or anything keyboard-y. I bought a cheap Roland, did some digging into sound creation, and learnt a few quick and nasty inversions - now I'm quite happy to play whatever is put in front of me and I get a bunch of gigs.
