First fretless. Do I go for flats?

[Lo-E]

Your comment has reminded me that I own a Peterson Strobostomp HD tuner that has the capability of always on pitch detection. I turned it off when I got it but this might be a good time to turn it back on for practice with this baby.

Or it might just drive you insane. Trust your ears. Notes beat when they’re out of tune. You’ll hear it if you’re playing to backing tracks or drones. If you’re just playing scales you might want the tuner or just check yourself against open strings.

Something I didn’t mention in my earlier post: there’s a fair amount of (what I consider to be) misinformation out there about fretless and I’m pretty happy that I haven’t seen very much of it in this thread so far. The folks who have responded to you are real fretless players who have real-world experience and perspective.

That’s not always the case! I’ve seen a lot of new-to-fretless threads where the answers provided can’t possibly be provided by real fretless players. I’m happy to report that you’ve been given pretty solid, measured advice thus far!

Two topics that I feel are mostly overthought, though, are fingerboard wear and “Mwah.” Some of the theories that surround these two topics can boggle the mind!

Fingerboards will wear no matter what kind of strings you use. Upright basses need to have their boards dressed even though they all use flatwound strings. Frets wear out and so do fingerboards. You should not let this dictate which strings you use (my opinion). Dress your fingerboard if and when it needs it and use strings you like. Don’t overthink it.

“Mwah” is a result of technique. Certain set-ups can help. Certain strings can help. Nothing will help, though, if you don’t have the technique down. Once you do, you will be able to get the mwah sound from any fretless bass - regardless of strings, regardless of set-up. Again, just my opinion. Learn the technique. It’s not really that hard. Don’t overthink it.

Just my few cents…

 

[Swamp_Ronin]

These are either copper or white gold tapes, can’t remember at the moment, on a ‘79 Sabre fretless. Sharing as an example that rounds aren’t necessary for a singing tone (this is just me dorking around at home, please be kind).

beautiful tone. didn't expect to like the flats, but this sounds great. MM's excel at fretless tone

 

[rickdog]

Or it might just drive you insane. Trust your ears. Notes beat when they’re out of tune.

Indeed. If you're playing "roots and fifths" the tuner won't lead you too far astray, but when you get into "a little extra" like a major third... an equal tempered major third (which is what your tuner pedal will show is in tune) is almost 14 cents sharp from the perfect 5/4 harmonic ratio your ear will hear as in tune. I'll be the last to claim that my fretless intonation is perfect, but I find major thirds the hardest to get right.

Back to the original topic... I've been using LaBella Gold White Nylons (750G, .050"-.105") on my fretless for a long time. I've occasionally tried other strings, but keep coming back. They're as bright as a stainless steel round, but they have that roundwound character. If you end up not liking the strings that come on your bass, give them a try.

And have fun! Fretless opens up a whole new world of expression.

 

[Swamp_Ronin]

Listen to LO-E.

1) "Mwah" is not overrated, it rules. It sounds ancient and beautiful.

2) rounds will MARK your board, but wont' EAT it. We're not Stevie Ray Vaughn death-gripping bends here, play normally. If you wear your board enough for it to be sanded down, congratulations, you're probably an AWESOME fretless player after that much mileage.

3) we don't listen with tuners, we listen with EARS. Play along with music for three months, and your intonation will be fine. I almost let this scare me out of playing fretless, but now I can do it without fear.

 

[Swamp_Ronin]

Indeed. If you're playing "roots and fifths" the tuner won't lead you too far astray, but when you get into "a little extra" like a major third... an equal tempered major third (which is what your tuner pedal will show is in tune) is almost 14 cents sharp from the perfect 5/4 harmonic ratio your ear will hear as in tune. I'll be the last to claim that my fretless intonation is perfect, but I find major thirds the hardest to get right.

Back to the original topic... I've been using LaBella Gold White Nylons (750G, .050"-.105") on my fretless for a long time. I've occasionally tried other strings, but keep coming back. They're as bright as a stainless steel round, but they have that roundwound character. If you end up not liking the strings that come on your bass, give them a try.

And have fun! Fretless opens up a whole new world of expression.

I'm curious about putting these on my stingray (FL). I Love the tone of rounds- can you just leave these tapewounds on indefinitely like flats?

 

[WG Plum]

I'm curious about putting these on my stingray (FL). I Love the tone of rounds- can you just leave these tapewounds on indefinitely like flats?

I haven’t since I last had the bass set up some time ago now, haven’t/heard felt a reason to change them yet.

 

[rylie]

I've tried rounds to flats on a Squire jazz fretless. Settled on GHS pressure wounds. Closest match to a hybrid between flats/rounds.

 

[gypsyfelon]

I've bought my first fretless bass, an ESP LTD B-205SM. It's B stock so I imagine it will arrive with the manufacturers string choice on it which would be D'Addario XL 45-125. The website doesn't say, but I assume they're round wounds.

Here's my question. Should I stick with those or something similar, or do I want flats? I'm thinking about Sting in The Police and Pino back in the day doing his fretless thing. If I want those kind of sounds, can I just use anything? Or should I definitely use flats or rounds?

I like tapewounds myself

 

[DCCat]

Like several others here, I suggest tapewounds. Full disclosure: I'm not a rounds guy, all my other basses have TI flats, so rounds are not an option for me even on fretless. But the LaBella white nylons I currently use on my fretless are the best of both worlds when it comes to smooth feel (and minimal fingerboard wear FWIW) and the singing quality of rounds on fretless. To my ear, these sound like somewhat broken-in nickel rounds right out of the box and they never really change much. (The rounds under the nylon wrap are stainless, but the wrap dampens their tone a bit.)

Be aware, though, that not all tapes are created equal. The white nylons are the brightest in the LaBella line (and maybe anywhere?), while the other LaBellas have their own slightly darker and interestingly colored tone. Other manufacturers' tapes are also unique in their own way, and to me the Pyramids are particularly interesting. But for me right now, the white tapes are the best for my fretless.

 

[Swamp_Ronin]

Like several others here, I suggest tapewounds. Full disclosure: I'm not a rounds guy, all my other basses have TI flats, so rounds are not an option for me even on fretless. But the LaBella white nylons I currently use on my fretless are the best of both worlds when it comes to smooth feel (and minimal fingerboard wear FWIW) and the singing quality of rounds on fretless. To my ear, these sound like somewhat broken-in nickel rounds right out of the box and they never really change much. (The rounds under the nylon wrap are stainless, but the wrap dampens their tone a bit.)

Be aware, though, that not all tapes are created equal. The white nylons are the brightest in the LaBella line (and maybe anywhere?), while the other LaBellas have their own slightly darker and interestingly colored tone. Other manufacturers' tapes are also unique in their own way, and to me the Pyramids are particularly interesting. But for me right now, the white tapes are the best for my fretless.

Thanks for such a detailed response. I ordered a set.

I generally do not like flatwounds, and they rob the fretless of its mwah, for some reasons either scientific or known to the gods. I feel like one can dial the treble out of the Pino/jaco tone, but the overtones can't be dialed into flatwounds. There's a clip earlier in this thread of a fretless Saber, and if I can get that out of them, I'd be pleased!

 

[ardgedee]

Thanks for such a detailed response. I ordered a set.

I generally do not like flatwounds, and they rob the fretless of its mwah, for some reasons either scientific or known to the gods. I feel like one can dial the treble out of the Pino/jaco tone, but the overtones can't be dialed into flatwounds. There's a clip earlier in this thread of a fretless Saber, and if I can get that out of them, I'd be pleased!

I was reading a bunch of threads about flats a little while ago to collect thoughts about strings for fretless and my takeaway is there's a relatively recent (last 15 years) generation of flats being made that are considerably brighter or at least fuller in tone than what you expect out of good ol' LaBella or Pyramid flats. I've had some recent experience with D'Addario Chromes and found they're not thuddy and have decent sustain. No substitute for rounds either if you want that tone, they've got their own thing going on. It's made me interested in flats from TI and Dogal but the prices are a bit rich to be buying strings just for experimentation. Even Ernie Ball Cobalt Flats are running seventy bucks for a five-string set, but everything I've read indicates you can get very rounds-ish overtones out of them.

tl;dr: Flats have more tonal variety than they used to. It's worth resetting expectations if you haven't tried 'em in a few decades.

 

[woodyng2]

Flats or Rounds? Try Labella white copper tapewounds in the light (50-105) gauge. They are a hybrid sound combining the smooth thumpiness of flats with a bright but subdued roundwound twang. Plus, they are the best feeling strings you can imagine.

 

[Lo-E]

Plus, they are the best feeling strings you can imagine.

The best feeling strings I can imagine would be covered in muppet fur (but they probably wouldn’t sound very good).

 

[Zazie Moondust]

Going to throw in another recommendation for La Bella White Tapes. I use the gold ones on mine to kind of go with the gold hardware.

They can do the mwah sound, and they can do vaguely upright type sounds as well, depending on how you set EQ tone controls. It doesn't have the same kind of zingy treble as regular wounds, which is the only tradeoff.

I also like they they last a very long time since the tape protects the strings from dirt and grime

 

[hasbeen]

Fretless has been my main instrument for decades....even on sessions. All I play are rounds. I can get rounds to sound like flats but I can't get the inverse.

 

[SteveCS]

Pino back in the day doing his fretless thing. If I want those kind of sounds, can I just use anything?

Flats will thump, rounds will sing “mwah”. If you’re worried about your board, try a very bright flat like the EB Cobalt flats. If you want singing tones, get some rounds.
...

I started with rounds then switched to Rotosound Superwound 707, which had what they called a Linea finish - round wound then squashed slightly flat. RS stopped making those back around 1991, so I bought as many sets as I could find. When they ran out I tried 55 'Solo' strings, but they were something of nothing and without a happy medium. After a short period using Chromes, I now use EB Cobalt Flats (2814) which really do bring the timbre of a round with the feel of a flat. The 'open' winding takes a bit of getting used to and they don't sound great out of the bag, but they settle quickly and seem to last a long time - my current set has been on over 4 years with daily play and they still sound great.

 

[JRA]

...can I just use anything? Or should I definitely use flats or rounds?

as others have pointed out, rounds will get you the historically 'classic' fretless sounds if you like that, but yes, you can use anything you like. if you have a favorite: try them and hear for yourself.

i've always used rounds: i like TI jazz rounds as my go-to, but roto 66s have always been my fail-safe (and they're cheap, of course). a few weeks ago i installed a set of labella nylons on one ax and they're pretty cool, too.

congrats on your first fretless!

 

[SteveCS]

a few weeks ago i installed a set of labella nylons

Did you go black or white? I have black on my short-scale fretted Hofner (they are great once you get the low tension under control) and I tried white once on an Aerodyne Jazz, but not either on a long-scale fretless. But if they're good enough for you then I see that as an endorsement

 

[JRA]

Did you go black or white?

hey, steve!

i installed a white/gold set --- i'm still getting used to them. they have a fun, slicker feel (compared to my nickel/steel rounds), and i'm not having any issue with the overall sound (i'm pretty relaxed with that, anyway). i do like 'floppier', compliant strings, and these fit the bill. of course, they're a fatter gauge so that's the biggest difference for me (i like lights/extra-lights mostly).

i picked that set for two reasons:
- i didn't want to coat a roasted maple board with anything but some wipe-on poly (lazy) and i thought they'd be forgiving on that surface: they are.
- @EatS1stBassist (RIP) raved about them on his fretlesses (and i put them on a fretless parts bass i made for a friend...who also likes them).

so i can't really give you too much constructive feedback ATM, they're just too new to me. but i like them, and i can't think of any reason i'd abandon them any time soon, at least on that ax.

sorry i can't say more, at present, hope that helps.

 

[Alphabass 89]

I like tapewounds for my fretless. My fingerboard still looks new. It sounds completely different from my fretted bass with rounds. I would say I play Fretted 90 per cent of the time so it is noticable when the fretless comes out.