First Full Build: Drop in a pond ripple effect

[Lonnybass]

Was just measuring heights and the A bridge I’ve got measures 10.5mm off the body to the top of the saddle in the lowest adjustable height, and can adjust to 17mm high.

My gut is telling me that lowering the pocket 1/8” would be fine, but I’m thinking I should get the bridge screwed in and get some strings on the bass to really know. The funny part is I haven’t carved the back of the neck yet, fabbed the nut, or put in the heel screws/ferrules etc...

It’s that other guy hanging on my other shoulder saying don’t listen to your gut and do the “right” thing -

My advice is to measure the height of the outside edges of the fingerboard on the left and right side to see what your height off the surface of the body looks like, then add maybe 2mm for frets. Just eyeballing it off of your photos, I'd be concerned that if you like a lower action, your outer string saddles would bottom out and the strings would be above a comfortable playing height, and you wouldn't be able to set up the bridge to follow the radius of the fretboard. Here's a blueprint draft showing how I factor my bridge saddle dimensions into my neck pocket depth and fingerboard height above the body surface.

 

[chinjazz]

My advice is to measure the height of the outside edges of the fingerboard on the left and right side to see what your height off the surface of the body looks like, then add maybe 2mm for frets. Just eyeballing it off of your photos, I'd be concerned that if you like a lower action, your outer string saddles would bottom out and the strings would be above a comfortable playing height, and you wouldn't be able to set up the bridge to follow the radius of the fretboard. Here's a blueprint draft showing how I factor my bridge saddle dimensions into my neck pocket depth and fingerboard height above the body surface.

View attachment 2840720

Thanks, I’ll check that out to see. Thanks for the extra feedback . Is there a basic rule of thumb or height range, or a formula that’s acceptable? Relative to the bridge at hand?

 

[T_Bone_TL]

Presumably you COULD pocket the bridge base a bit if you wanted to and that didn't cause clearance issues on the pickups?

 

[chinjazz]

Presumably you COULD pocket the bridge base a bit if you wanted to and that didn't cause clearance issues on the pickups?

I’m not sure I want to go down that path. But it sounds like a good way to fix the problem if I got into that situation.

Leaning toward just making sure I have enough saddle adjustment room for the top and bottom strings (per what @Lonnybass shared).

 

[Lonnybass]

Thanks, I’ll check that out to see. Thanks for the extra feedback . Is there a basic rule of thumb or height range, or a formula that’s acceptable? Relative to the bridge at hand?

As you'll see in the blueprint photo, I typically plan on a neck pocket depth that leaves the lowest part of the fingerboard - the outside edges, with an additional few millimeters for fret height - at the same approximate height as the bridge saddles in their lowest position. If you decide to shim your neck pocket, or trim the pocket at a slight angle, you could get away with a slightly more recessed neck. I always use compound radius fingerboards and like a lower action, and overall playability and comfort is hugely important. I would use the minimum saddle height as your guide and target the same for your fingerboard - I think the least desirable outcome for a custom bass would be to not be able to lower the strings to a comfortable height.

PS Where in Atlantic Beach are you?

 

[chinjazz]

As you'll see in the blueprint photo, I typically plan on a neck pocket depth that leaves the lowest part of the fingerboard - the outside edges, with an additional few millimeters for fret height - at the same approximate height as the bridge saddles in their lowest position. If you decide to shim your neck pocket, or trim the pocket at a slight angle, you could get away with a slightly more recessed neck. I always use compound radius fingerboards and like a lower action, and overall playability and comfort is hugely important. I would use the minimum saddle height as your guide and target the same for your fingerboard - I think the least desirable outcome for a custom bass would be to not be able to lower the strings to a comfortable height.

PS Where in Atlantic Beach are you?

Hey LonnyBass,

Thanks for the detailed description to your blueprint photo. It makes a lot more sense to me know and now realize the slight downside to the A style bridges lowest saddle height. I do like the B style as well but the side to side adjustment does come in very handy on a new design/build. I’ll do another measurement tonight. I’m almost decided on leaving the pocket as is.

Do you know AB? I live approx 1/2 mile from the ocean a few blocks behind the City Hall/Fire Dept & Park.

 

[Lonnybass]

Hey LonnyBass,

Thanks for the detailed description to your blueprint photo. It makes a lot more sense to me know and now realize the slight downside to the A style bridges lowest saddle height. I do like the B style as well but the side to side adjustment does come in very handy on a new design/build. I’ll do another measurement tonight. I’m almost decided on leaving the pocket as is.

Do you know AB? I live approx 1/2 mile from the ocean a few blocks behind the City Hall/Fire Dept & Park.

I think you're probably safe on the neck pocket and you could even do a shim if for some reason you wanted a little more flexibility on the saddle height. The geometry of the bridge to neck depth is something I really started paying a lot of attention to as I started to get into doing more wide-necked 5 and 6 string instruments where the curvature of the fretboard on the outside strings was much lower relative to the crown.

RE: AB - yes, I know it well! My uncle actually lives right over the bridge from you on the IC in Queens Harbor - they own Moto Electric Vehicles on Mayport Rd. Many happy memories of dinner at Singleton's, cruising out of the channel past Mayport, and driving down to St. Augustine over the years!

 

[chinjazz]

I think you're probably safe on the neck pocket and you could even do a shim if for some reason you wanted a little more flexibility on the saddle height. The geometry of the bridge to neck depth is something I really started paying a lot of attention to as I started to get into doing more wide-necked 5 and 6 string instruments where the curvature of the fretboard on the outside strings was much lower relative to the crown.

RE: AB - yes, I know it well! My uncle actually lives right over the bridge from you on the IC in Queens Harbor - they own Moto Electric Vehicles on Mayport Rd. Many happy memories of dinner at Singleton's, cruising out of the channel past Mayport, and driving down to St. Augustine over the years!

Thanks! Before getting into building I spent a bunch of time experimenting with shims and getting that perfect setup for my own playing and a bit for others. Aestically, I like the idea of cutting the neck pocket down to where a lot of neck thru Basses are at on the line of the bottom of the fretboard, but I’m thinking they also cut angles.

I’m probably ok going down 1/6” but I’ll measure a few more times just to be sure.

When was the last time you visited AB?
The Neptune Beach Town Center on Atlantic Blvd has gotten pretty up scale with bunch of new restaurants. My son and I go surfing at the Poles pretty regularly

 

[Lonnybass]

Thanks! Before getting into building I spent a bunch of time experimenting with shims and getting that perfect setup for my own playing and a bit for others. Aestically, I like the idea of cutting the neck pocket down to where a lot of neck thru Basses are at on the line of the bottom of the fretboard, but I’m thinking they also cut angles.

I’m probably ok going down 1/6” but I’ll measure a few more times just to be sure.

When was the last time you visited AB?
The Neptune Beach Town Center on Atlantic Blvd has gotten pretty up scale with bunch of new restaurants. My son and I go surfing at the Poles pretty regularly

Nice! I'll have to shoot you a note next time I'm coming down there and we can try to link up.

Many of the neck throughs do indeed have an angle to accommodate the bridge dimensions. Otherwise the saddles bottom out and there is no being able to fix it - ever.

About ten years ago I bought a Fender Jazz FMT (basically, Fender's spin on a Sadowsky - exotic figured wood top, custom preamp, upgraded hardware, beautiful). I spent nearly $1700 on that damned thing and the G string wouldn't go any lower than nearly 1/4" off the top of the fingerboard with the saddle all the way down. Shelling out that kind of cash on a brand new bass that would need to be taken apart and shimmed - ugh. Really made me rethink my construction geometries to factor in all the angles.

 

[chinjazz]

Nice! I'll have to shoot you a note next time I'm coming down there and we can try to link up.

Many of the neck throughs do indeed have an angle to accommodate the bridge dimensions. Otherwise the saddles bottom out and there is no being able to fix it - ever.

About ten years ago I bought a Fender Jazz FMT (basically, Fender's spin on a Sadowsky - exotic figured wood top, custom preamp, upgraded hardware, beautiful). I spent nearly $1700 on that damned thing and the G string wouldn't go any lower than nearly 1/4" off the top of the fingerboard with the saddle all the way down. Shelling out that kind of cash on a brand new bass that would need to be taken apart and shimmed - ugh. Really made me rethink my construction geometries to factor in all the angles.

Definitely reach out if you're headed this way .

I was noticing that trend on the neck throughs - good to know officially.

You're Fender Jazz FMT experience does sound like a hard one to forget. Sorry that happened.
Was the bridge upgraded from spec, or it came that way from Fender? Thankfully, I haven't had that expensive a mishap yet, but thanks for sharing.

I just penciled out a carving shape on the body for the rear cut away behind the neck.. I'm getting pumped to get on with carving the neck now. I'll post pics Thanks!

 

[Lonnybass]

Definitely reach out if you're headed this way .

I was noticing that trend on the neck throughs - good to know officially.

You're Fender Jazz FMT experience does sound like a hard one to forget. Sorry that happened.
Was the bridge upgraded from spec, or it came that way from Fender? Thankfully, I haven't had that expensive a mishap yet, but thanks for sharing.

I just penciled out a carving shape on the body for the rear cut away behind the neck.. I'm getting pumped to get on with carving the neck now. I'll post pics Thanks!

Let me know if you want some pointers on the neck carve - I've sent more than my share to the scrap heap over the years!

 

[chinjazz]

Let me know if you want some pointers on the neck carve - I've sent more than my share to the scrap heap over the years!

Thanks Lonnybass I've got a new Shinto, a number of wraps, files, scrapers. I've mentally gone over it a few times, and doing with the facet approach seems to be a good way to start. First, I'll use my spindle sander to ease in on the volute initially, then move over to length shaping.

 

[Lonnybass]

Thanks Lonnybass I've got a new Shinto, a number of wraps, files, scrapers. I've mentally gone over it a few times, and doing with the facet approach seems to be a good way to start. First, I'll use my spindle sander to ease in on the volute initially, then move over to length shaping.

You are welcome! The shinto quickly became my favorite carving tool- just bear in mind, it removes stuff FAST!

Two quick bits of advice I would give you

1. Take it slow and know exactly where your target thickness needs to be, and then leave it slightly oversize for final adjustments. Use a contour gauge (you can get them at Lowe’s and Home Depot) to see the profile and help with your measurements. A little bit at a time is the way to go...get it under your hands in playing position as you carve.

2. Draw a line on each side of the neck billet, about 5 or 6 mm parallel to the fingerboard glue line. This is your carving facet stop-line, so you can blend the shoulders of the neck into the fingerboard with sanding and shaping rather than risk taking chunks of wood out along the edge of the neck, with no material left for you to work with beneath the fingerboard.

 

[chinjazz]

You are welcome! The shinto quickly became my favorite carving tool- just bear in mind, it removes stuff FAST!

Two quick bits of advice I would give you

1. Take it slow and know exactly where your target thickness needs to be, and then leave it slightly oversize for final adjustments. Use a contour gauge (you can get them at Lowe’s and Home Depot) to see the profile and help with your measurements. A little bit at a time is the way to go...get it under your hands in playing position as you carve.

2. Draw a line on each side of the neck billet, about 5 or 6 mm parallel to the fingerboard glue line. This is your carving facet stop-line, so you can blend the shoulders of the neck into the fingerboard with sanding and shaping rather than risk taking chunks of wood out along the edge of the neck, with no material left for you to work with beneath the fingerboard.

I’ll hit a practice piece of maple (got s couple of off cuts) to get a feel for the Shinto. I was also a bit intrigued by Microplanes but thought I’d first go all Shinto on this neck.

I got a contour gauge a bit ago and have a few other necks I can guide from a bit.
I saw a video by Richard McCurdy on shaping necks:
......while I don’t agree on all his techniques, The sand paper in the palm of the hand thing sounded like a good idea, at least for this bass.

My carving facet stop line is 1/3 (6.5mm) the height of the maple and should probably decrease because I don’t like chunky on 5ers.

 

[Jisch]

I've done many necks using the facet method. At this point I just do the first facet on each side then I can freehand it from there. The tough part is always the heel/transition. A contour gauge helps, but nothing is better than running your hand up and down the neck feeling for any imperfections. I want that transition to feel completely smooth. I had a "bump" in the neck I'm doing now, I could neither see it nor find it with the contour gauge, but I could feel it. A few minutes with 80 grit took care of the problem. I love the contour on this sixer I'm making, the width is a little scary though. I also have it pretty thin front to back, hopefully there's enough there to handle the string tension.

 

[chinjazz]

I've done many necks using the facet method. At this point I just do the first facet on each side then I can freehand it from there. The tough part is always the heel/transition. A contour gauge helps, but nothing is better than running your hand up and down the neck feeling for any imperfections. I want that transition to feel completely smooth. I had a "bump" in the neck I'm doing now, I could neither see it nor find it with the contour gauge, but I could feel it. A few minutes with 80 grit took care of the problem. I love the contour on this sixer I'm making, the width is a little scary though. I also have it pretty thin front to back, hopefully there's enough there to handle the string tension.

Yes, I kind of was thinking that once I’ve done a few necks I’d go “feel” after the first facet.

I get your drift on the scary side of a wide board. I used to take bass lessons form Norm Stockton and the day he received his MTD 735 I was blown away by the look of that neck! It played like butta as expected but wow now that I think about making something that wide... its a very different.

Transition wise I realized that with this single cut, I really had to have my neck heel backside thought out well before I started carving the neck. That transition is crucial to me.

One thing I’ve been adopting on the curves in carving is to use different parts of my body template as a guide/influence to my lines.

Picture is kinda dark but here’s what I’m talking about

I think it’s a nice way to work it.

 

[Jisch]

Yeah, that looks nice. I like a swoopy curve back there on the transition, more for aesthetics than for playability. I admit I wing that part though, I just keep carving until it looks good.

 

[chinjazz]

Yeah, that looks nice. I like a swoopy curve back there on the transition, more for aesthetics than for playability. I admit I wing that part though, I just keep carving until it looks good.

Thanks! Yeah, my lines will guide me in some areas but I’ll want to wing too in certain spots knowing me

 

[Arie X]

fwiw, i don't do any faceting, i just hit it old school -spoke shave, dragon rasp, chisel, scraper, sanding bar, etc.. imho spending time laying out and maintaining geometry that i'm just going to chop off anyway seems wasteful... but whatever works.

i do like back of the neck templates though. one for the nut area, the 12th, and the heel. i cnc mill them out of thin plexi and compare constantly with the templates and measure with calipers. i find those sliding pin type gauges like General's are "ok" for roughing, but lack detail for finishing and are kinda coarse where the fretboard meets the neck.

sop for me is to use the rasp to carve out a annular channel at the nut, and the 12th or the body joint depending on the instrument to within say .030 or so of final contour and then go in with the spoke shave and slice out the meat in between those spots. using a 12" steel rule keeps me aligned. then i semi-finish, then define the heel and volute areas, then go for final.

you're doing well so far Mr Chin, keep it up!

 

[Jisch]

I did that on my first neck, it took a long time to get it straight all the way along the neck.

I figure out the profile I want at the nut and 12th, find the tangent line for each side and draw the line along the neck, once you have those lines drawn on the neck blank there's no way to mess it up and it's consistent end to end. I envy you guys who can use a draw knife, it looks really cool. My one attempt with it was bad, I didn't ruin the neck, but it was close! I am sure over time I'd get used to it.