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First gig impression: Shuttle 9.0 vs. LMIII

Monkey

Monkey

Mar 8, 2000
1,505
700
Ohio, USA
#1
I've been using LMII/LMIII amps for a while now and have been happy for the most part. I recently switched from using 2 GS112s to a fEARful 12/6 (thanks dhomer!) and loved the LMIII tone with the new cab. I played an outside festival a few weeks ago and wanted more 8-ohm power for the cab, so after doing a lot of research, I bought a Shuttle 9.0 on TB (thanks whoapower!). I had a chance last night to try to the 9.0 at a one-set benefit show in a club with about 100 or so people.

I almost always got a great tone with my LMIII set flat (maybe a little VLE). Last night, the 9.0 flat sounded good, but not as rich and deep as the LMIII. Pushing the low button helped, but I really noticed the difference when I went to my bridge pickup for a solo. My fretless solo tone was not nearly as pleasing: less full and rich.

Also, I set the drive and volume knobs on the preamp at noon and had the master volume also around noon. The amp wasn't nearly as loud as I would have imagined.

This was a quick, one-hour set with little time to set up and adjust, so I'm sure I will learn to dial in a better tone as I get more experience with the amp, EQ options, etc. The 9.0 is a great amp that gets a ton of love on TB, so I know the tone is in there, but I must admit that I found myself missing the LMIII tone last night.
 
#2
First and number ONE!!!!
This has been stated over and over again. Genz uses consistent taper pots. This means you get a very even amount of volume using whole turn of the master volume. In other words. You get most all of your usable volume on the LMII master by the time you hit 12:00. The Genz 9.0 will give all of its volume at 6:00. Try the drive at 12, volume at 4 or 5, and the master at 12. That'll give you some more oomph.

The limiting is set higher (or differently) than the LMII. You can actually get more usable volume from the 9.0. I've used my 9.0 with the drive at 12:00, volume at 5:00 and master at 5:00 with one box. (I underestimated the gig.) Its not that it got so much louder than the LMII, but it sounded wide open. The sound didn't get clamped down like the LMII. The 9.0 just got bigger and more forceful, the LMII got compressed and a little farty. (its a word!)

Tone is a whole other thing. I agree with you on the tone issue. I went back to Markbass. I miss the headroom a lot, but I like the tone more for me.
 
#3
I have a Shuttle 6.0 and a Little Mark III. Both nice, but the Markbass still rules on the tone, simplicity, and "evenness." I always found myself fiddling with the Shuttle, but on the Little Mark III, I can usually set it and forget it. I've been playing my LM III through GK Neo cabs, but I actually think I should start trying it through my Genz-Benz 2x12 Neo that I used to pair with the Shuttle. That may be the best of both worlds.

I like Genz-Benz, but there's something about the LM III head that just works so well with very little effort.
 
#4
Thanks, B String. I somehow missed the consistent taper pots issue, so I will try your suggestions.

I really hate that clamped-down sound when approaching max volume on the LMIII, but rarely need to get that loud. The other big issue for me is the parallel effects loop. I have a nice compressor I would like to use, as well as a parametric EQ, but don't want to sink more money into having it converted to series.

I'm glad to know that I'm not alone with the tone, though.
 
#6
Monkey said:
Thanks, B String. I somehow missed the consistent taper pots issue, so I will try your suggestions.

I really hate that clamped-down sound when approaching max volume on the LMIII, but rarely need to get that loud. The other big issue for me is the parallel effects loop. I have a nice compressor I would like to use, as well as a parametric EQ, but don't want to sink more money into having it converted to series.

I'm glad to know that I'm not alone with the tone, though.
Click to expand...

Man, you must be playing loud because I've never gotten near max volume on the Little Mark III, even when playing on just one 8 ohm cab. When I'm at 4 ohms with two Neo cabs that allow full power from the head, it's especially inconceivable to me that I'd ever approach max volume. (I suppose you could always get rid of the Shuttle and get the LM 800 for more power if you really need it.)
 
#7
Man, you must be playing loud because I've never gotten near max volume on the Little Mark III, even when playing on just one 8 ohm cab.
Click to expand...

I usually don't play super-loud, but three times (all at outdoor gigs), I felt either my LMII or LMIII clamping down a bit (I have an old, beat-up LMII that I bought used as a backup). Most of the time, I play in small-to-medium-sized clubs and don't come close to maxxing out on volume.

I must confess to almost constant GAS, so my recent unhappiness with the headroom could have just been another excuse to experiment with another head.
 
#8
boristhespider9 said:
Man, you must be playing loud because I've never gotten near max volume on the Little Mark III, even when playing on just one 8 ohm cab. When I'm at 4 ohms with two Neo cabs that allow full power from the head, it's especially inconceivable to me that I'd ever approach max volume. (I suppose you could always get rid of the Shuttle and get the LM 800 for more power if you really need it.)
Click to expand...

Actually I don't play all that loud. I have basses with healthy output, and I play with a little more conviction than some do.
Its not as much about the output as the limiting threshold of some of the Markbass heads. Its rare that I've had it happen with any other heads. And in spite of that I still love my 121P combo. The limiting kinda works with that set up. I'm also enjoying my new (used) F500. (Kjung, you were right)
 
#11
That said there are some really nice tones in the Genz stuff. You just have to experiment with the eq.
Click to expand...

At home, I was able to get some nice tones with EQ changes, but it sounded good set relatively flat. At gig volume, the differences to the LMIII were more apparent.

The GB is an awesome amp, but it might be more appropriate for someone who needs lots of high end. I play mostly reggae these days, with some acoustic gigs (on both electric and DB), and love a deep, full sound with subdued highs. My 5-string fretless with TI flats really shines with the LMIII.

I'll continue to play with the EQ, but I may stay with my LMIII after all.
 
#13
Monkey said:
At home, I was able to get some nice tones with EQ changes, but it sounded good set relatively flat. At gig volume, the differences to the LMIII were more apparent.

The GB is an awesome amp, but it might be more appropriate for someone who needs lots of high end. I play mostly reggae these days, with some acoustic gigs (on both electric and DB), and love a deep, full sound with subdued highs. My 5-string fretless with TI flats really shines with the LMIII.

I'll continue to play with the EQ, but I may stay with my LMIII after all.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you have similar tone goals to mine. I use 7 yr old flats and roll my tone pot off etc.

One thing you might try is adding an eq pedal or VT Bass etc.

Another thing you might try for the bigger gigs is using the DI out of the LMII into a power amp. Just make sure the input sensitivity of the power amp matches well with the LMII output so you can get the power amp up to its intended volume level. You can pick up a used power amp for $200-300 and it should do you fine if you are only using it 2 or 3 times per year.

Or as 3rdcurve suggests a Streamliner.
 
#14
Monkey said:
I usually don't play super-loud, but three times (all at outdoor gigs), I felt either my LMII or LMIII clamping down a bit (I have an old, beat-up LMII that I bought used as a backup). Most of the time, I play in small-to-medium-sized clubs and don't come close to maxxing out on volume.

I must confess to almost constant GAS, so my recent unhappiness with the headroom could have just been another excuse to experiment with another head.
Click to expand...

The Shuttle 9 will put out more absolute volume when pushed (it should!) than the LMII. In addition to the more 'even gradual' gain, volume and master pot design (which can make the heads seem a bit anemic if you don't realize that you need to crank them a bit more than on many heads), the Shuttles are a bit thin out of the box (versus the even, fat inherent tone of the LMII/III).

This is easily fixed. The bass control on the Shuttle is much more useable for boosting than the bass control on the LMII/III, and the Shuttle really fattens up with a slight boost to that bass control. The tight hi passed low end of the Shuttle, and the shelving bass control that impacts some mid bass, results in a boost in the bass control really rounding out the low end. Of course, engaging the boost extends and boosts the deeper low end if you really need more deep bottom.

The upper mids of the Shuttle, combined with the inherent tight low end give them the reputation of being quite bright, and they are. Cranking the gain and volume a touch (they kind of work inversely of each other... I always treated them as bringing the volume control down or up at 1/2 the amount that you boost or cut the gain to keep the signal going into the EQ section from getting either too hot or not hot enough), boosting the bass control, and then cutting the upper mids with the semi-parametric mid control smooths the head out.

That all being said, I too prefer the even, plug and play tone of the LMII, and with my relatively efficient large 4ohm cabs, I rarely if ever hit the limiting on the power amp. So, for many, that is not an issue.

Both nice heads. The Shuttle Max 9.2 is the thing though IMO if you are looking for a Genz head that is loud and punchy. The EQ on that head is massively superior to the Shuttle heads, and the FET channel is PUNCHY!
 
#15
Kjung, thanks a lot for the detailed advice.

Unfortunately, my gigs have kind of dried up lately and I don't have anything on the book for the next month or so. I'm going to try your suggestions at home and hopefully can try them on a gig before too long.

Or, I may decide that the LMIII is my sound and sell the Shuttle.
 
#17
Of course, amp sound is very subjective.

That said, my experience with the Shuttles is that they achieve the tone I am looking for by:
1) not using the boost buttons except for difficult room situations.
2) Low at about 1o'clock(-)
3) Mid Freq at 8PM (~220 Hz); Mid level at 1 o'clock - 1:30
4) High at 1 o'clock(-)

#3 is IMO the key to this amp.

If MB is working for you, then go for it. It's all good.

The above settings give me this sound (and there is no FOH at all):

and that is pretty much the tone I am looking for.
 

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