First gig with D800+ and SW15

[tshapiro]

Just a couple of observations looking at your stage. Your guitarist has a DSL, I'm assuming 40 watts tube. That amp can get pretty loud. If your sub is cutoff at 80mhz, or even 120, there's a lot of critical low mids that those 2 flyers you have may not be able to do justice to. It's a big misconception that FOH support for bass is only in the <100mhz range. I find the low mids and high mids can be even more important and hard to be supported properly if the FOH speakers aren't up to it or if the bass is routed to just the sub. But, let's say for a minute that the PA was 'adequate' (even though it seems the tops are a bit small for a mid-to-loud outside gig), I personally would want a 2nd bass cab. Like Agedhorse was alluding to, a tilted cab might put more sound toward your ears. But, for outdoors, I like a stack so the lifted cab is closer to my ears and the amp has the ability to push more air. If I were eye-balling that setup, I'd have probably thrown 4 flyers instead of 2 (helps that I carry 4 in my trailer), probably would go 2 subs, and would have have had a 2nd bass cab. There's no right or wrong with any of this, I'm just saying that's how I would have spec'd out what I see in the picture for a mid-loud rock band outdoors.

 

[USAJO]

It would certainly look better with two SW15 stacked.

Oh and the guitar uses a 40 watt Marshall. We really aren’t that loud on stage though. Not loungy but not Blue Cheer either.

 

[Nebadon2000]

ZZ Top is playing at a Popular Farmers Market near me in Barco NC between where I live Moyock and OBX on October 2; Never seen them Live [that I can remember]

I will be 71 Sept. 9 and stopped going to Concerts 6 years ago but I am tempted if I can get over no Dusty; They are using their long time Guitar Tech Elwood Francis on Bass that name seems to fit but no beard

 

[agedhorse]

ZZ Top is playing at a Popular Farmers Market near me in Barco NC between where I live Moyock and OBX on October 2; Never seen them Live [that I can remember]

I will be 71 Sept. 9 and stopped going to Concerts 6 years ago but I am tempted if I can get over no Dusty; They are using their long time Guitar Tech Elwood Francis on Bass that name seems to fit but no beard

He's got a beard (now at least).

 

[tshapiro]

I play a D800 and either 1 or 2 SW 115s, and am pretty much never in the PA. Agree with @ItsmeSantiago and @ole Jason that one 115 is totally fine indoors even with a loud band. And as @ItsmeSantiago noted, outdoor gigs where there are walls or buildings—or for me, smaller outdoor spaces—one cab has worked well. But in big outdoor spaces, I have always brought two cabs, and they’ve handled everything we needed. And they sound soooo good together, I use any excuse to bring them both!

On the other hand, indoors, two 15s can look pretty intimidating to band members and bar owners alike, so I leave one at home.

View attachment 7312255

I’m sorry but the stack of the Subway 115’s is so beautiful the looks alone are with the price of admission for me

 

[Ben Clarke]

My primary rig now is 2 single 15s from another manufacturer. So many posts using that exact word - anemic, when talking about using a single rather than the pair of what I'm using.

I think the OP's reflection on the experience and thought that the PA was masking the sound of the amp is probably the most likely.

When using an older Mesa amp (M9), a single has carried varied gigs that wouldn't work with anything anemic. And mine are way less sensitive than than the SW line or any reasonable ported cab. So I think it's cool to explore what could be the issue rather than cure it with more cabs as a reflexive solution.

I suspect the newer Mesa amp had plenty of performance to work well with the SW115. Sometimes you just hear a lot of PA and it seems like the amp isn't doing much. Times like that I try not to think of what I've spent on backline.

Seeing the photos and reading the description, I'd carry one box of my speakers that are nowhere near as loud as the SW115.

And so it goes...

 

[USAJO]

Finally got head out of van and case. Pretty sure this is how it was set. And yes it was at 4/8 ohm.

I’m thinking being close to sub was the biggest issue but the amp/cab at these setting didn’t seem that strong.

Maybe I could have cranked it more.

The SGT-DI also plays into it.

 

[agedhorse]

Turn your high mids up to 12:00

 

[wjcstp]

In the EQ you're cutting everything but the treble by quite a bit, seems like you'd lose quite a bit of punch even with the input and master up around 1:00.

 

[USAJO]

In the EQ you're cutting everything but the treble by quite a bit, seems like you'd lose quite a bit of punch even with the input and master up around 1:00.

Yes my thinking was the sub was so loud and thumping right next to me I didn’t to add to it so I cut lows.

It was a quick set up and sound check so I was grasping to get something that worked for me on the fly.

Thanks for everyone’s thoughts on this.

 

[Nebadon2000]

Those settings look like what you would do if trying for a 'Anemic' tone Yes with Sub didn't want to clash but not good for your stage sound
and if FOH is carrying sound well....

Get Sub away from you stick it by Guitar player let him deal with it

You were suffering similar to the dreaded Keyboard player using Bass pedals on stage at high volume when you are trying to play Bass part;

 

[Wasnex]

Those settings look like what you would do if trying for a 'Anemic' tone Yes with Sub didn't want to clash but not good for your stage sound

Except the sub is already putting excess low in on the stage. This is sort of like biamping. The subs give you the lows and you adjust your amp to fill in the mids and highs. Sometimes this works really well and sometimes it doesn't. When it doesn't work well, cranking the lows on you amp is unlikely to make things better, unless you can run the amp loud enough to dominate.

Sometimes the best think you can do is turn down your amp and smile and act like everything is perfect.

 

[Nebadon2000]

Except the sub is already putting excess low in on the stage. This is sort of like biamping. The subs give you the lows and you adjust your amp to fill in the mids and highs. Sometimes this works really well and sometimes it doesn't. When it doesn't work well, cranking the lows on you amp is unlikely to make things better, unless you can run the amp loud enough to dominate.

Sometimes the best think you can do is turn down your amp and smile and act like everything is perfect.

Sub should be in front of band with FOH not on stage with players IME
As with Keys using pedals I will let my opinion strongly known as opposed to accepting your last sentence but unfortunately sometimes I am heard and some times ignored and forced to suffer through as you described

If using FOH for audience that mix should be different than Stage mix with monitors for players: Yes compromising in done if stage amps are carrying Venue

 

[Wasnex]

Sub should be in front of band with FOH not on stage with players IME

It's okay to have a strong opinion. But ideally it should be informed by the actual physics you are dealing with, which you seem to be ignoring. Subs tend to be omni-directional unless they are in large arrays. There are a few examples of small subs with cardioid dispersion patterns, but omni dispersion is far more common. So the reality is whatever level is sent forward is also usually sent towards band members as well.

If the house mix is loud and you are nearest to the sub, you will typically hear the sub louder than than audience does. SPL drops of by 6dB per doubling of distance. Example, If you are 1m from the subs and the audience is 4 meters from the sub, you will hear the sub 12dB louder than the audience. 12dB is a huge difference.

So while I agree that the sub should ideally only send sound forward to the audience and FOH. That goal frequently does not comport with the reality of the situation, so you have to make do unless you are important and powerful enough to force the issue. This essentially means you can and will take more than your fair share of available sound quality.

As a professional musician, most of us are more like service providers than artists (IMHO of course). If you fall into the service provider role, then I suggest making sure the audio quality delivered to the audience is reasonably good. I do agree that compromise is required, but this frequently means you don't get the best possible sound on stage. Essentially you give up some of the available sound quality to ensure the audience has a better listening experience, and is therefore more satisfied with the quality of service the band provides.

If using FOH for audience that mix should be different than Stage mix with monitors for players

100% true. I frequently mixed four channels of mains and four channels of monitors. The FOH channels were left, center, right, and subs. While each of the monitor mixes were custom built, there was plenty of bleed coming from the amps, other monitors, and the house mix. Also the sound from all of those separate sound sources tends to bleed into all of the open mics and make a mess of things. We did the best we could and it rarely sounded as good as we wanted. But it was usually good enough to draw compliments from the audience.

 

[USAJO]

I imagine their stage volume was variably dependant upon the era's and venues they played. The indoor 80's show I attended was at the Berkeley Civic Auditorium which was smallish and the new San Jose Arena (enormous) in the mid nineties. The Berkeley show way way too much poor quality sounding bass, it was unpleasant. The San Jose Arena show:



was a five channel (?) surround system and was awesome. Both shows were so loud in enclosed buildings that the stage volume could not have possibly been quiet, except with earplugs, iems, they must have worn something.

I guess the main thing is your system can always be kept at a reasonable level for circumstances using the controls, but it has to be able to make the grade.

: )

I love that video. Live Dusty used a very aggressive/distorted/driving sound. I’ve grown to like it.