First gig with D800+ and SW15

[USAJO]

Bought these about a year ago. The band has been learning the material and rehearsing for a year. Difficult scheduling due to other band members commitments with other acts but we finally booked a small venue outdoor gig.

Small PA but we did have a JBL 2200 watt sub.

I used my Mesa and an SGTDI for stage volume.

We are a 3 piece ZZ Top band and play moderately loud on stage. Not crazy loud.

Honestly a single 15 didn’t give me the sound/power I was hoping for even used as a stage monitor.

With PA sub cranking it worked but on stage it seemed a little anemic to me.

I’ve read so many times that a Subway single 15 is plenty loud on stage for gigs. I just didn’t get that feeling.

I’ll either buy a second 15 or sell it and get a 212 cab. I think the D800+ might need a 4 ohm load to give me what I want.

Am I nuts? Anyone else experience this or am I just doing it wrong somehow?

 

[Nebadon2000]

IME with any setup I have used when on an open outdoor stage as shown; I send DI out pre EQ and have to make a bit more[sometimes drastic] EQ changes than indoors to get what is decent stage tone from my perspective

Also when even carrying Gig indoor or outdoor [no foh] I set my stage sound not quite anemic but thinner more middy to get sound/tone I want for audience
based on how bass projects in venue

Actually I did a Festival outdoor Gig where backline was a small combo DI out and a touch of volume but sound team had a first rate monitor facing me with my Bass prominent in my mix and it was best stage sound I had at any outdoor Gig also insured my Bass stage volume didn't interfere with FOH mix

 

[ItsmeSantiago]

I played with a D800/Diesel 115 setup for a while and it was plenty for indoor gigs. Even outdoor gigs where there were walls it was just fine.

We played an outdoor spot that was wide open and we were cranked on stage and people couldn’t hear us 30 feet away, which was where most of the people were. We were a quiet band to begin with and had a PA that suited our smaller quiet gigs so the entirety of the setup was inadequate for the venue.

Your rig is fantastic. If you have good FOH and PA support, use that DI out as suggested in the previous comment.

 

[USAJO]

A beard, a hat, sunglasses and a jacket almost conceal how old and less than attractive I am. That was the nexus of putting this together. I’ve grown to really like the music. I was never a huge ZZ fan but the tunes have really grown on me. Love it.

 

[TheSpinDoctor]

About once a year, my old band would play outdoor gigs.
For most of the gigs there was a professional FOH system, but the sound guys found that my rig was loud enough that no bass support was needed. I used one Ampeg SVT-18 cabinet. The first time with an Ampeg SVT-3 Pro amp. Unfortunately, the MOSFET bias potentiometer in that amp is prone to change value anytime the amp is transported. A new amp was needed.
After that I used a Mesa/Boogie WD-800 amp. The last time with FOH support, the sound guy, also a bass player, was amazed by how much low end my rig had. (The cabinet was set directly on the stage so likely there was coupling.
At our last gig, also outdoors, I used the WD-800 amp with an Ampeg VB-410 cabinet. There was so much low end that I seriously considered lowering the Bass tone control from the 12 o'clock setting.
My preference is to have enough low end that it sounds like organ pedal bass. This allows me to always get below the guitar and keyboard sound spectra.
Depending upon your desired tone, you may find that a suitably tuned cabinet with your D800+ amp provides the tone and volume that you seek.

 

[agedhorse]

Bought these about a year ago. The band has been learning the material and rehearsing for a year. Difficult scheduling due to other band members commitments with other acts but we finally booked a small venue outdoor gig.

Small PA but we did have a JBL 2200 watt sub.

I used my Mesa and an SGTDI for stage volume.

We are a 3 piece ZZ Top band and play moderately loud on stage. Not crazy loud.

Honestly a single 15 didn’t give me the sound/power I was hoping for even used as a stage monitor.

With PA sub cranking it worked but on stage it seemed a little anemic to me.

I’ve read so many times that a Subway single 15 is plenty loud on stage for gigs. I just didn’t get that feeling.

I’ll either buy a second 15 or sell it and get a 212 cab. I think the D800+ might need a 4 ohm load to give me what I want.

Am I nuts? Anyone else experience this or am I just doing it wrong somehow?

Can you share your settings?

 

[wjcstp]

This is always so subjective. I play in a moderately loud 5-piece and I’ve never had a problem hearing myself with a 112 cab. I’m also curious about your settings and whether the amp was on the stage or elevated/tilted toward you.

 

[USAJO]

Can you share your settings?

I’ll check it when I unpack. Using the SGTDI
Into the front probably affected everything too. First gig with the band so I was a little stressed. It was outdoor on a stone tile patio.

I’ll checkout where I had settings tomorrow.

 

[agedhorse]

As a general suggestion, when something isn’t working as expected, get rid of the outboard devices and get back to basics.

 

[Wasnex]

Am I nuts? Anyone else experience this or am I just doing it wrong somehow?

Maybe you guys just play super loud .

Calculated SPL:
Subway 115 at 400W = 124.5dB
Subway 115 x 2 at 800W = 130.5dB
Subway 212 at 800W = 129.2dB

A rig capable of 124dB calculated is pretty much my personal minimum. It's not always enough, but I am not willing to turn up very much beyond this point. IMHO, sometimes it's better to smile and act like everything is perfect. for the record my last touring rig was rated for 127dB and I don't ever remember pushing it to the limit.

I assume getting a second 115 will be less expensive than getting a 212. However, the choice should also driven by which better meets your tone goals. My perception is most prefer the Subway 15s, but this is not universal.

Another option: There are players here on Talkbass who swear by a Subway 112 + 115 combination.

What part of the frequency spectrum do you find most important. If you like big thumpy lows you probably will want the cab on the floor. If you key more off mids and highs, then elevate the cab and tilt it to aim at your ears. This is what I do and it helps me hear clearly at the lowest possible volume. IME, bass player who prefer big thumpy lows hate this approach; so YMMV.

 

[ole Jason]

I tend to agree the 115 alone isn't really enough outdoors depending on the setup and band sound. I can tell by your drummer's setup this probably isn't a quiet band! I think I'm going to add the 210 soon just for a little more oomph when playing outdoors.

That said I've always been really happy with the 115 indoors even with loud bands.

 

[DrumsAndBass]

Yes, add a second cabinet. You’ll move more air.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

The modular approach of adding another 1x15 or 1x12 makes more sense, then you can scale your rig to the size/type of venue, and it's also easier to carry one at a time, as said, also cheaper than swappng for a 2x12. Anything that won't cover needs FOH support anyway, Sounds like a fun gig. I'd argue for a 1x12 in combination with the 1x15, might cut through better in a muddy sounding room.

 

[USAJO]

Yes, add a second cabinet. You’ll move more air.

I went from a single Epifani 12 cab to two of them and it was night and day tone wise.
I was hoping the single Mesa 15 would be all I need and maybe on a traditional stage it will be but the night reminded me of my single Epifani experience.

I’ll check the settings I had and maybe with mains thumping its a moot point. I’ll also consider elevating the cab.

If they weren’t so dang expensive I’d buy a second and be done with it.

 

[ravlin]

My 800+ is at limit with a 115 (GK neo 115 IV) in that situation. Have to turn the voice knob down and favor those mids.

 

[Pep]

I went from a single Epifani 12 cab to two of them and it was night and day tone wise.
I was hoping the single Mesa 15 would be all I need and maybe on a traditional stage it will be but the night reminded me of my single Epifani experience.

I’ll check the settings I had and maybe with mains thumping its a moot point. I’ll also consider elevating the cab.

If they weren’t so dang expensive I’d buy a second and be done with it.

Just remember when you elevate the cab you will lose the “floor coupling effect” (some low end) and if that’s what you’re needing, don’t elevate.

You have some options:
(1) Add another 15
(2) Add a 12
(3) Add a 2-10

Also, is your bass pickup giving you everything you’re looking first as far as tone? If not Lindy Fralin can remedy that.

 

[agedhorse]

Tilting the cabinet back a bit may be all you need.

 

[Shoreline Gold]

I find my D-800+ with the 115 Ultralite to be more than enough for most applications. We do however run a line out from the amp's DI (a fantastic DI by the way) to subs. Nevertheless, for most outdoor gigs I use the 112 paired with the 115 so I can bump it up to 800w. Outdoor sound dispersion is such a downer sometimes.

 

[instrumentlevel]

I play a D800 and either 1 or 2 SW 115s, and am pretty much never in the PA. Agree with @ItsmeSantiago and @ole Jason that one 115 is totally fine indoors even with a loud band. And as @ItsmeSantiago noted, outdoor gigs where there are walls or buildings—or for me, smaller outdoor spaces—one cab has worked well. But in big outdoor spaces, I have always brought two cabs, and they’ve handled everything we needed. And they sound soooo good together, I use any excuse to bring them both!

On the other hand, indoors, two 15s can look pretty intimidating to band members and bar owners alike, so I leave one at home.

 

[CryingBass]

YHMV.