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First refinish. Need some advise - mystery wood...

Hello!
A friend if mine gave me a bass, he said it has been in his shed for years, nothing special but I like p style basses so I figured I'd sacrifice it on my first try at refinishing. I know what I want but don't know how to get there. First off, can anybody tell me what kind of wood this is??? It's light!

This is it.
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Sanded to 220, Wow! All day project!
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Hopefully I can figure out how to get..

This color/tranparency
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This gloss/sheen/grain
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I have never tried to stain wood before but I'm a mechanical guy so I can handle it if I know what to do. I want the color to be intense with a matte or satin finish. I'm not sure if I need grain filler it not, if I should laquer or tru-oil? So how do I get from point A to point B? What would you do?
 
Fun project!

Tru-oil is very forgiving, and can either be left glossy after several coats, or made satin with a little more elbow grease. After finding the stain color you want, Tru-oil should be your friend.

Birchwood-Casey makes another product that I use for the satin finish--it's called "Stock Sheen and Conditioner". It's about the consistency of a very light cut polishing compound for auto finishes. Rub in with a cloth until dry--wipe off. Easy.

As for the question of grain fill...not exactly sure of the species of wood you've got there, but it's not the same as the one in the bottom picture. If you want the grain to be as prominent as possible, don't grain-fill in your finish process.

Also, I've never done a lacquer finish, but I think those that have will chime in and say that with lacquer finishes, all of the grain will be totally smoothed over.

Good luck,

Shane
 
Thanks!

I'm pretty sure I'm going to end up using the Colortone Cherry Red dye from StewMac. I have found a thread on anothe forum where a guy mixed the Colortone dy with truoil and applied it straight to a test piece of wood. It looks pretty close to what I want but I don't know if the type of wood will make a difference in the final color. Obviously I don't have any test pieces to try out my technique or lack thereof. So I need to get as close as possible the first try. Hopefully I can use something that I can apply in multiple coats to get the desired color.

Ill check out that conditioner stuff. Thanks!
 
Any helpful hints as to what steps to take to get the outcome I'm looking for are greatly appreciated!

No ideas as far as what kind of wood I'm dealing with? Not that it's all that important. I'm going to attempt the red stain either way, I'm just curious.

Thanks!
 
Hey cool project and staining it and then using is a good route to go. Regarding what type of wood it is i honestly can't tell you for sure but for some reason it reminds me of some cedar deck boards that I have glued together for a body. Now I am most likely wrong but just for comparison here's a photo of my wood. Btw how much does the body weigh? That might help identify the wood.
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The body weighs 2.8 pounds. I had to weigh myself with and without the body on the bathroom scale (digital). It's all I've got. It wouldn't register any weight by itself.

My gut says to finish sanding it out to 400 grit and then stain. I hope I can get that true red color. That's the part that makes me nervous, the tru oil on top seems pretty straight forward. I don't have a piece of test wood. Could I test in the pockets? Or will it not represent the right color cause its not sanded? I really like that red!

Thanks for the comments!
 
First, the wood is probably alder. That's what it looks like from here, and alder was commonly used on the bodies of those basses.

I personally wouldn't recommend applying a red stain directly to that body, as it is right now. Although you've sanded off the outer finish, the wood is still filled with sanding sealer down in the grain. And the amount remaining isn't even, as you can see from the various patches of darker tan color. You'll never really get all of the sanding sealer out of the wood unless you sanded off about 1/16" of wood all over every inch of the body. So, you aren't dealing with fresh, bare wood here. Your body has been pre-sealed, or partially pre-sealed, so it isn't really suitable for direct staining.

If you try to apply a stain to it, as it is right now, the color will probably be very blotchy and uneven.

Just to clarify things, the words Stain and Dye get bounced around a lot, and it can get confusing. Dye can often be used to do Staining, and purchased "Stains" can be used as Dyes. The term Dye usually refers to a colored pigment mixed into a solvent or paint base. The Dye, like that bottle that you buy from Stew-Mac, can be mixed and used to do staining. Or it can be mixed in to some clear finish and applied to make a transparent-colored finish.

When Staining wood, the mixture is very thin, and it soaks into the wood, carrying the pigment (or dye) down into the grain of the wood. Then some kind of clear finish is applied over the top to seal up and protect the wood. This process is usually done on bare, fresh wood. Sometimes a thin wash coat of sealer is applied to the wood first, to help the stain soak in more evenly all over.

Another whole approach is to do a Transparent Finish. That's what that gorgeous red Tele is. In a Transparent Finish, several coats of clear sealer or base are applied first and sanded level. This seals up the grain and provides a good flat surface for the color coats to bond to. Then, some red dye is mixed in with clear finish to make a light transparent red. These color coats are usually sprayed, to get them even, but they can be wiped or brushed. The depth and darkness is built up slowly, in 8-12 coats. Then it's all coated with clear. That's a Transparent Finish. Note that the color (the dye) isn't down in the wood. It's floating in the finish which is sitting on the surface of the wood.

Sometimes, these two methods of finishing are used together. The wood may be stained first in a dark color, and then lightly sanded. This darkens the grain lines. Then, a transparent finish is applied over that to build up the color.

That red J-bass is an example of a stained finish. Notice how it's somewhat blotchy and uneven (although it's still a nice looking bass overall!). It's very difficult to get the color of a stained finish even and as deep-looking as a transparent finish. A bass body, with all of the curves and contours, has areas of end grain, side grain, surface grain, all mixed together, and the color will sink in differently in each area. Add in some partial areas of sealer down in the grain, and it's even worse.

Anyway, my recommendation for your project is to do it as a wipe-on transparent finish, not a stained finish. Tru-Oil is an old classic, although there are other finishes around these days which will dry faster and harder. Start by applying several coats of plain clear to the body, letting it dry and lightly sanding it smooth. Then mix a small amount of the red Stew-Mac dye into the clear to make a transparent red mix. Don't try to rush it and make it bright red in one coat. Just a little bit of color in the mix, and you build up the red in ten coats or more. That way, you can keep it even, and you will get a lot of depth to the transparent color.

When you get the color where you want it, put several clear coats over the top. Let it dry thoroughly, and lightly sand and steel wool it to the sheen that you want.

Note: Satin sheens and bright colors are kind of opposing forces. High gloss makes bright colors brighter and dark colors deeper. Satin makes them duller. It's really hard to make a bright color satin finish. You can see the difference between that Tele and that J-bass.

I hope this helps.
 
Wow! Thanks Bruce! That's a lot of information! Thank you so much!

Ok, I will take that advise and start with clear truoil. When you say several... I think 5-7 coats before any color. Do you agree? And when I sand, do you recommend wet paper on a block? Or use steel wool? With as many coats as I'm going to end up putting on how will it stay level? Now I'm thinking with a trans finish it should end up being more on the glossy side. What do you think? Lol, with answers come more questions!

I still need to finish sanding. Hopefully this week or weekend. Then start the shiny stuff. Slow and steady wins the race. I still need to get the Colortone ordered.

Ill be posting pics now and then to show you guys the progress.

Thanks again!
 
UPDATE!!!

Man, I didn't realize 4 months had gone by!!! The reason for that is I am not a good sander... I had a very hard time with the edges. The grain started to get very bumpy between the layers of grain. As if part of the grain was harder that the other and would create ridges between every layer. I watched a bunch of videos and read all I could find on sanding but never could get it the way I was wanting so I got frustrated and quit trying.

Tuesday I started again... Sanding with the grain with a small hard block helped but I think patience is the key. Not usually a virtue of mine.

Anyway, I finished sanding the body down to 320. I was going to go to 400 but I figured I would quit while I was ahead.

Color and application...

The advise from Bruce Johnson here 4 months ago was long forgotten after the problems I had sanding this b!tch, sorry Bruce. I'm usually someone who takes advise to heart, my bad! I searched for videos and info on tinting or dying truoil but didn't come up with a whole lot. I found 2 videos by Brian Forbes on you tube that convinced me to use the technique I did.
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And this one, Invalid Link Removed
The application of the oil paint directly to the body gave me the intense color I was looking for. Tinting the truoil looked like a long and drawn out process I didn't think I had the time or patience for. Maybe on the next one ill be able to relax and take the scenic route.

Here are some pics of the progress. I'm going to let the color dry for a day or two and the start coating with the truoil.

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The last pic does not do the color/grain justice it is not a solid red color at all. The body shows lots of grain. I'm really excited to get the truoil on!!!
 
I was going to suggest transtint red for the body, But I can see that its too late now. never thought of using oil paint to tint a piece of wood, hopefully it totally dries for you before you start with the true oil. there's a really good wipe on poly that is satin, and it dries pretty fast. I've had a lot of luck with it when trying to go for less sheen, and for the simple fact that it is really forgiving.

I like the color a lot. another thing that you could have done is stained it with black, and then let it dry and sand it down to give more depth to the wood before doing the red. But once again its a little too late for that now. lol

Keep up the good work! tuning in.
 
Thanks!

I was going to use the transtint dye but didn't want to spend the money. I'm on a budget, so this way is pretty cheap. I am worried that the truoil is going to take some of the color off. I checked it this morning, About 10 hours later, gently touched it with my fingertip and I did get a tiny bit on it. Also I was wanting more red than grain showing but I think the truoil is going to take some of the color off and end up showing more grain. It's pretty humid and rainy here today so I'm going to let it sit a while. Hopefully this pans out.
 
Not that I want to be a party pooper, but another major hobby of mine aside from music is art, including painting with oils and acrylics. Oil paints, although advertised as having 'drying times' in the order of a few days, don't really "dry" per se. I've found that some really old paintings of mine, like 30+ years, can still have the paint "pushed" across the surface, exposing un-hardened paint inside the strokes.

The technique in the video overcomes this by embedding the oil colours in the tru-oil, which is formulated to dry to a hardened surface. What you've done may work out just fine, but it's also possible that the tru-oil will not be able to harden completely over the oil paint. I'd also leave it to dry for at *least* the advertised drying time for those paints before trying the tru-oil - maybe even worth waiting double the time. They advertise reds as slow-drying needing 5 days. I'd probably give it two weeks before trying the tru-oil myself.

Sorry to be a downer...
 
Ok boys, first coat of truoil is on! And it looks pretty good! The color is pretty close to my goal! I took these pics about an hour after I applied the truoil. This morning it looks even better. It was difficult to get the pictures to show the actual color. Check it...

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There are a couple spots that didn't take the color, damn! It looks like something got on the wood just before or after ther color was applied. When I wiped that area with truoil the color came right off, damn. Not a huge deal, first try on a cheap bass I'm ok with it. I am going to apply more coats of truoil and the first few I'm going to tint it with the paint I used. Maybe I will get some coverage on those areas.

If this project finishes the way it's going now ill be happy. I already want to try this on a nicer, newer piece of wood.

Here is a sneak peak of the finished color combo...

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So you did the trans color with a cheap tube of oil paint, very interesting. I'm going to have to stop by Hobby Lobby and get a couple of tubes of it and do some experimenting with it under the Urethane top coat I usually use. I love talkbass, I always learn stuff I would have never even though of on my own.