First Time Being Told "YOUR BAND SUCKS"

[lowfreq33]

You fell victim to the classic "everybody said you were terrible", in this case "everybody" being the 3 old drunks that live at the bar from open to close, 7 days a week. Barflies tend to complain a lot, and tend to repeat themselves, because they don't remember as far back as yesterday. Don't sweat it.

 

[Jeff Bonny]

When I was about 20 I learned one of the most valuable lessons of my entire life being told the band I was working in sucked.

We'd just come off stage At the Seagate Hotel in Port Hardy after announcing a "short break".
As I passed a table of old guys who'd been in there drinking for several hours one says to me,
"Hey buddy, do me a favor?"
Figuring he wants to hear a Charlie Pride song or something I say, "Sure, man. What?"
He says, "Don't take a short break, take a good shaging LONG one 'cause you guys shaging SUCK."
No stranger to brawling and figuring he was looking for a fight I obliged him with a hard right jab to the jaw and knocked him backwards outta his chair. Figuring that was that thank you very much I turned to go get a drink. Well damned if that tough old bastard didn't get up and give me several of the most memorable punches I've received to date.

I learned that taking that kinda poopie so seriously probably wasn't my most profitable course of action....and don't take old guys for granted.
Wish he'd just wanted a Charlie Pride song.......

 

[spaz21387]

It happens alot in the punk scene... I just laugh at them. Im in it for fun not to please everybody!

 

[TheBass]

"You're the worst band I ever seen in my life"

Don't worry. This ranking only lasts until next week ... when he has seen next band on stage he doesn't like.

And btw: idiots like this are international - I've met them here in Germany too

 

[fourstringdrums]

Hey I see you're from Central Mass....this is a hunch, but you didn't happen to play at the Red Onion in Baldwinville/Templeton did you?

The reason why I ask is because I used to live in the central MA Fitchburg/Leominster area and when we played at the Red Onion (or at least that's what it was called then. I don't know if it's even still open) my band was told the EXACT same thing. Actually your story sounds exactly like mine. I was the drummer and I know the owner and the guy who did the bookings (a guy named Ken?). My band played and we didn't have a draw since it wasn't our usual area, but the place was pretty packed and everyone seemed to like us. After the gig, he was raving about us, the turnout and how they had a great night. We got paid and he wanted to get us in ASAP. We couldn't give him an answer right then because we had to check our respective calendars and see if we were free. So when I finally tried getting back to him, he kept dodging me. When he finally booked us, it was for July 4th weekend. He canceled about two weeks before and said that he had other plans. When tried to rebook that date he ignored me. Finally he said "Look man, I don't think it's going to work out. When you guys played here last it wasn't a good night. The turnout was lousy and I lost a lot of money on you (which was the complete opposite of what we were told).

So what you said you were told sounds exactly like my experience, which is why given that you're in possibly the same area that you may have played the same venue. If he's still pulling that B.S. I'm actually going to be surprised given that this was 6 years ago.

 

[lowfreq33]

Another good thing to remember is that the owners of dive bars usually get into the business because they're drunks themselves, and owning a bar sounds like fun. Get to drink all day at work, what could be better? No surprise their memory of your gig is spotty at best.

And I have no problem with anyone who wants to enjoy a few drinks or a joint or whatever. But if you've ever seen that Bar Rescue show, the guy says the same thing every time. Successful bar owners don't drink in their own bar. And he's right. You have to draw a line separating business and pleasure. If the owner drinks, the employees drink, sooner or later you've got a bunch of drunks trying to be responsible for a business, and that's not the way to be successful.


Sent from my iPad using TalkBass

 

[hrodbert696]

Of course, we all know the REAL reason for this...

your guitarist's shirt.

Gotta be the shirt.

 

[obimark]

In my last band- at one gig; the owner stopped us after our first set- she pulled me and the drummer aside and told us simply- "your singer is awful". and sent us home early.

At first I had the typical, "BS, she is wrong- we are good" response, but then I really went and listened to some of our recordings, and guess what?
She was right. The singer sounded awful. I had blinders on.

Taught me a valuable lesson- bands live or die by their singers. If your singer sucks, your band sucks- Period.

 

[huckleberry1]

I'll bet the Beatles were told the suck a time or 2. Don't sweat it (unless you hear again and again, or if your wife tells you!).

Elvis was told he sucked, couldn't get on the Grand Ole Opry

 

[Lobster11]

6. Our drummer booked this gig. Granted, he knew the guy, but I'm not sure he may have been very clear about what the venue was getting as far as a performance. Allyson normally books for us, and when she does we NEVER have this kind of issue. Whatever it is she does, she has found places for us to play that want what we're selling. There's never an issue of "you're too loud, it's too rough, don't do this, don't do that..." We just show up, do what we do, and go back and do it all over again. She must take the time to feel out the club owners and she determines which ones are good places for us and which aren't. I'm not sure Pat really did the same thing, I don't know. We decided to just leave it to Allyson to handle the bookings.

It sounds to me like it probably all boils down to this. You were just the wrong band for this room, and the owner never would have booked you in the first place if he'd know what he was getting. And it wouldn't matter how well you actually do what you do; he and his clientele just don't like whatever it is you do.

It never ceases to amaze me how much people seem incapable of distinguishing "X sucks" from "I don't personally care for X's kind of music."

 

[nutdog]

Never been told we suck. Plenty of times I thought we sucked.

 

[Dana R Gregory]

This hurts now but some day many years from now you will all sit down together and have a good laugh over this. What can you expect from a drunken dive bar. I watch bar rescue too, I love how John Taffer is able to transform a rundown dive into a thriving bar. The band I was with was never told by a club owner or promoter that we sucked. We did get it from drunken patrons. We had one guy who kept coming up to the stage and requesting songs that we did not play. We tried to explain to him that we didn't play that type of music but he persisted. Finally he said we would never amount to anything because we sucked and he knew because he was Neil Diamonds manager. He was lying and we knew it. Neil Diamond lived in Los Angeles and we were playing in Chelsea, MA. No way this jerk was his agent. For a dissatisfied patron, he danced every set we played. And he danced like a total jerk. Gotta love it. We had another drunken woman come up to us as we were breaking down at the end of the night, telling us we sucked because we didn't play a particular song. I said thank you, we now know where in lay your gutteral tastes. She stormed out and my band mates were all laughing about it. I seem to remember that we did play that song at the beginning of the gig. Gotta love the affluence of incahol. LOL Don't let some drunk dump on your parade. You are a successful band with a loyal following so you are obviously doing something right.

 

[BayStateBass]

Hey I see you're from Central Mass....this is a hunch, but you didn't happen to play at the Red Onion in Baldwinville/Templeton did you?

The reason why I ask is because I used to live in the central MA Fitchburg/Leominster area and when we played at the Red Onion (or at least that's what it was called then. I don't know if it's even still open) my band was told the EXACT same thing. Actually your story sounds exactly like mine. I was the drummer and I know the owner and the guy who did the bookings (a guy named Ken?). My band played and we didn't have a draw since it wasn't our usual area, but the place was pretty packed and everyone seemed to like us. After the gig, he was raving about us, the turnout and how they had a great night. We got paid and he wanted to get us in ASAP. We couldn't give him an answer right then because we had to check our respective calendars and see if we were free. So when I finally tried getting back to him, he kept dodging me. When he finally booked us, it was for July 4th weekend. He canceled about two weeks before and said that he had other plans. When tried to rebook that date he ignored me. Finally he said "Look man, I don't think it's going to work out. When you guys played here last it wasn't a good night. The turnout was lousy and I lost a lot of money on you (which was the complete opposite of what we were told).

So what you said you were told sounds exactly like my experience, which is why given that you're in possibly the same area that you may have played the same venue. If he's still pulling that B.S. I'm actually going to be surprised given that this was 6 years ago.

Ha ha...no it wasnt. But similar type of place. The Onion has been at us for close to a year to play there. We probably would except our drummer refuses to set up on a piece of plywood that's on top of pool tables. You played there so you know of what I speak.

BTW that same story gets told even now...by many bands....six years later.

 

[fishdreams]

A few thoughts, from the perspective of playing live for a considerable amount of years, and in the day job working in product development and often handling customer complaints:
Handling the situation:
1. On a personal level: Someone saying you suck and the music you happen to be involved in actually sucking have nothing to do with each other. Sometimes the music you happen to be involved in sucks and people say you're great, sometimes the other way around. Both listen to what people say and trust your own instincts. It is not about right or wrong. look for the information in the feedback. If it conflicts with your own instincts there's a possibility to learn something.

2. On a non-personal level: you have a business reputation to cherish and a situation to resolve, and you need to pro-actively address it. To ask for an explanation if none was given is perfectly OK. Even if he makes it personal (which makes him a jerk), you won't. Be formal, listen and thank the jerk for his time, apologize for the discontent you caused, and move on. You are not doing this for personal gratification but for damage control, to make sure the jerk leaves the conversation satisfied, is not going to smear your reputation online, towards his friends etc.

Adjusting your music/band:
It is important is to believe in your own project. If you don't, don't expect anyone else to. That said, there is always room for improvement. An analogy: at work I run a product(=your band) that we developed and we believe in. While it is doing OK in the marketplace, it has certain great features that no other similar product in that market has, and we don't get any feedback on those. So there are 2 possibilities here 1) the features are great but the patrons don't know or understand them; if they they were made to understand, their appreciation of the band would rise substantially 2.) people know about, but just don't care about those great features. If1) find out what obscures their comprehension of those great features and adjust accordingly. if 2) drop the features and put time and energy to features that will enhance the band in the public's eye.

 

[RustyAxe]

Taught me a valuable lesson- bands live or die by their singers. If your singer sucks, your band sucks- Period.

Indeed! My country band gets the best response when we do more complex vocals with 3 or 4 part harmony. We are fortunate that we have four really good vocalists (one is even a full time choral director). They hardly notice a great guitar/keys/bass/drum solo but go nuts for the vocals. I have mantra (a little OT, I know) ... I play for the boys, but I sing TO the girls.

 

[Winfred]

Another good thing to remember is that the owners of dive bars usually get into the business because they're drunks themselves, and owning a bar sounds like fun. Get to drink all day at work, what could be better? No surprise their memory of your gig is spotty at best.

And I have no problem with anyone who wants to enjoy a few drinks or a joint or whatever. But if you've ever seen that Bar Rescue show, the guy says the same thing every time. Successful bar owners don't drink in their own bar. And he's right. You have to draw a line separating business and pleasure. If the owner drinks, the employees drink, sooner or later you've got a bunch of drunks trying to be responsible for a business, and that's not the way to be successful.


Sent from my iPad using TalkBass

I'm gonna derail the thread, but this statement, "the owners of dive bars usually get into the business because they're drunks themselves", is completely false. If you add "unsuccessful dive bar owners", yeah, maybe there's some truth there. But to claim that bar owners go into the bar business because they're drunks, is ridiculous.

 

[lowfreq33]

I'm gonna derail the thread, but this statement, "the owners of dive bars usually get into the business because they're drunks themselves", is completely false. If you add "unsuccessful dive bar owners", yeah, maybe there's some truth there. But to claim that bar owners go into the bar business because they're drunks, is ridiculous.

Unsuccessful/dive. Tomato/tomato.

 

[fourstringdrums]

Ha ha...no it wasnt. But similar type of place. The Onion has been at us for close to a year to play there. We probably would except our drummer refuses to set up on a piece of plywood that's on top of pool tables. You played there so you know of what I speak.

BTW that same story gets told even now...by many bands....six years later.

Actually when I played there they had an actual stage. It was still made of plywood, but it was a stage. They actually had a riser that was on wheels that can be moved in or out. So tell him unless they changed something they won't be playing on pool tables...also they have an actual floor now. No more dirt floor. Not that there was one when I was there, but there was at one time. If you do play and you see a short brunette bartender with huge knockers named Michelle, tell her Rob from high school says hi lol

 

[Tony In Philly]

I'm gonna derail the thread, but this statement, "the owners of dive bars usually get into the business because they're drunks themselves", is completely false. If you add "unsuccessful dive bar owners", yeah, maybe there's some truth there. But to claim that bar owners go into the bar business because they're drunks, is ridiculous.

There are some really great owners out there that really know the hospitality business and they are obviously not fall down chronic drunks. Yet I do seem to notice that many dive bars that start booking bands to pump up the patronage past their 3 or 4 regulars are owned by fools who don't get the music business at all, and many of them do appear to have substance abuse problems. To me the biggest red flags are sudden demands to turn down the volume that come out of nowhere. Snorting some lines in the basement and don't want the cops suddenly stopping by due to a neighbor's complaint about the volume emanating from the bar by any chance? The other one is a steady parade of customers making their way in and out the kitchen,

 

[jive1]

There are some really great owners out there that really know the hospitality business and they are obviously not fall down chronic drunks. Yet I do seem to notice that many dive bars that start booking bands to pump up the patronage past their 3 or 4 regulars are owned by fools who don't get the music business at all........

Those bars tend to call in a band after their business has been flagging for a while, and somehow expect the band to turn it around. But once they get to that point, it's like calling in a handyman to fix your house after it has already burned to the ground. There's not much you can do with it.
You can call in a top cover band, but they will probably charge you more than your budget will allow, and if they playing at nice rooms, that's where their crowd will probably wait to catch the band. If you can catch your favorite band on Friday at a dive, or Saturday at a fun place, where do you think people will go?
You can call in an average band, but they will probably want money too beyond the budget. But, the average band may give in to play another room. They won't have the draw of a top cover band, but they may still sound good. However, because the bar is empty and the band doesn't have draw they probably won't play there again. Even though IMO, it takes having bands (and good ones at that) for a while at a place before the place gets known for good music and starts to draw. But, the dive bar owner will call it one and done.
They may call in a mediocre band, since it's in their budget. The mediocre band may draw the best because since they don't play out that much, they can get friends and family to watch them for novelty. The dive bar owner loves it, because they have a good night without paying the band and rebooks that band. Unfortunately, they don't repeat their draw, because even friends and family don't want to see a mediocre band all the time. The bar owner is mad because they didn't draw, and scared off the regulars, so the mediocre band gets their shows cancelled. But, since they had success with a mediocre band before, they try again, and again until the place's reputation is worse than before.
So the bar owner determines that having bands is losing proposition, and buys a photo hunt machine for the regulars to play with so they can make an extra $10 a night.
The problem is that even a great band will have a hard time overcoming the difficulties of a dive bar: poor promotion, bad service, bad food, watered down drinks, bad location, lousy atmosphere, etc.

And the addicts that run these businesses are no different than any other addict: They believe that it's always someone else's fault.