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First time creating a band - advices needed !
- Thread starter Romain909
- Start date
Preface: I am a believer in the 2 out of 3 rule (Music, Money, Hang) and have been very, very lucky playing in situations where I felt like I got all three.
In my dotage I find myself being a bandleader again. Not a job I wanted, but it's a trio, so pretty easy. The guitarist and I were both in a very successful cover band; the drummer has worked with him for a while. We've got the chemistry thing going--we all laugh at each other's jokes. The smartest thing I've done so far is to ask both of them what they like to play. Both said no bandleader had ever asked them that question before. And we're doing it all on the cheap: We play at our former bandleader's open mic, so we're not stressing out about sound systems, etc. Nor booking. If our former BL likes us, we'll probably get to open for her band now and again. Anything that happens after that is gravy. What do I get out of it? Well, for years people have been telling me I should sing more. So I am. I confess, being a real lead singer and a bass player is a lot harder than I imagined!
In my dotage I find myself being a bandleader again. Not a job I wanted, but it's a trio, so pretty easy. The guitarist and I were both in a very successful cover band; the drummer has worked with him for a while. We've got the chemistry thing going--we all laugh at each other's jokes. The smartest thing I've done so far is to ask both of them what they like to play. Both said no bandleader had ever asked them that question before. And we're doing it all on the cheap: We play at our former bandleader's open mic, so we're not stressing out about sound systems, etc. Nor booking. If our former BL likes us, we'll probably get to open for her band now and again. Anything that happens after that is gravy. What do I get out of it? Well, for years people have been telling me I should sing more. So I am. I confess, being a real lead singer and a bass player is a lot harder than I imagined!
You didn’t tell us your goals; it’s important to be clear about that with potential band mates. Our advice will differ depending on what you’re primarily trying to do: write your own material, make money, enjoy friendships, get better as a musician, play lots of shows, play no shows, record an album, get famous, etc.
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As others have said, communication is a HUGE element of successful collaboration, so it's great that you have a background in that area. As you're reaching out and finding potential partners, seek ones who are comfortable talking things over and expressing themselves — that will make everything easier down the road.
I was going to say this and @LowG beat me to it! Having good alignment on what you want to accomplish is essential; without that, it's very difficult to really work together towards a common goal.
Talking about ambitions and hopes is also a great way to assess communication skills during the recruitment process..
Best of luck — it's a project, definitely, but can be super-rewarding.
Look for "band adjacent" skills like
- relationships with people in the local scene (more than just other bands)
- a network of venue owners and promoters to tap for gigs
- pro recording skills & gear
- pro FOH skills & gear
- Photography skills
- social media manipulation skills
- gear repair skills
- van repair skills
Find one musician that wants to do what you want to do and is capable. Being likable and responsible is a must. Get some songs together and then add another musician that is aligned with your goals, plans and repertoire. It's tricky building this "Rube Goldberg Machine" where a series of chain reactions and mechanisms must work together to accomplish this not so simple task that is a band. If you're lucky to find compatible compadres to make up a band, you need to get some sort of gig... that will set a deadline and motivate everyone to step up and get ready to present something. Bands die in the rehearsal room if you don't go out to play in front of people.
Of course, Murphy's Law will effect everything so be flexible . Good luck!!
Of course, Murphy's Law will effect everything so be flexible . Good luck!!
A long the lines of communication; before requesting dedication, commitment and priority over other endeavors, as well as any monetary subsidization of the project requested, you need to be able to be able to make it worth your player's effort.
I've been let go from bands that thought I wasn't dedicated enough to the project because I wouldn't travel several hours to play for the tip jar and drinks in favor a paid gig closer to home. They were also upset because I wouldn't provide them with free sound and lights. Good riddance! Clowns...
I've been let go from bands that thought I wasn't dedicated enough to the project because I wouldn't travel several hours to play for the tip jar and drinks in favor a paid gig closer to home. They were also upset because I wouldn't provide them with free sound and lights. Good riddance! Clowns...
Find people that like to play what you like to play. Have fun. If you're good, r cord a demo to take to clubs.
If you want to be the "boss", then don't be controlling, unless of course you're willing to pay the musicians. Other than that, don't get a DUI.
If you want to be the "boss", then don't be controlling, unless of course you're willing to pay the musicians. Other than that, don't get a DUI.
Some great advice - I'll add a bit more. This one is a bit harder to define - but look for people who 'get it'. Whatever your vision is - look for people that align with it. For example, nothing worse than being a 90's cover band and bringing in a ripping guitar player that wants every song to feature an EVH style solo. Or you are a dance/pop band that has the goal of playing festivals and the like, and you bring in a singer who yearns to bring the uneducated punters an education on the ONLY REALLY GOOD MUSIC EVER from (insert their obscure pet genre here). A band needs to be a team. Clarity of vision is more important than chops and ability.
The first things you need to consider and iron out are more about what you are willing to do and provide than the band.
One, your vision of the band INC. it’s a business. And like all businesses you need working capital to get started. Secondly, a clear vision of the product you have to sell not only to consumers, but to your employees (band mates). Is it a product that is marketable. Nobody will sign on if there is no future.
So having a song list, an idea of what and where you will be performing and how you are going get them. Again this is a business and that mean somebody needs to actively and continuously sell it. Having a Facebook page, Linked In page already to go will certainly help but without active marketing, it will die. Having this in place will help you recruit.
Then there are these things. Do you have a rehearsal space, PA, transportation, a target date for performing live, time commitments required?
OK, now comes the band in three words Network, Network, Network!, I would start by making sure you have business cards ASAP, going to every music store in your area and asking about available musicians that might be interested in your opportunity. Secondly go to every live performances you can and spending a few minutes with the performers letting them know you are in the hunt for good players. I would highly recommend that until you have your band set with totally dependable players, you continue to recruit. You want the fattest ‘roll-a-dex” you can have because you never know when somebody washes out. Trust me on this. Good players are not going to stick around the during long periods of inactivity due to personnel issues.
When you get your referrals as you contact them be upfront and let them know that once you get a quorum of interested players you will be setting up auditions. Make sure you keep in contacts with your prospects as this process unfolds.
OK, you got now have just a list of prospective players and it’s time to see what they are about. There is an app called Chordfy. I recommend you download it asap and get familiar with it. This is the best way to learn songs on your own time. There is a free version and would encourage every prospect to get it and recommend they invest the $40 for the Prime version. You pick which version of the song you want to copy. Songs come with scrolling charts. Instant replay and cued rewind, variable playback speed, as well as pitch adjustment. It’s a tremendous tool.
So pick 4 or 5 songs from your list tell them to go to the app and learn the songs as best they can as they required to have these songs prepared on their time , not band time. Rehearsals are not for learning songs, they are for working out bugs. Be clear on this or you are going to have issues. As an employer it is a sin to waste anyone’s time. Having your talent sitting around doing nothing while somebody is trying to figure out a chord progression is not good for business.
Lastly, record all rehearsals and gigs. A digital pocket recorder is all you need. Why? Nobody can remember every note they play. Call it quality control. It also is a record of your specific arrangements, so as players come and go, you just give them a copy and let them learn on their own time.
Yeah, it’s a lot of stuff and I did’t cover the personal aspects of managing the interaction of people which is an art unto itself.
I wish you nothing but the best, but this isn’t for everybody, especially me. . Take care.
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ugh. An ugly truth to embrace if ever there was one.
It's easy to confuse "I enjoyed creating it" with "others will enjoy hearing it"
You can trust me on this. I spent a good portion of 50 years playing in front of empty seats for this very reason. Just keep in mind, most people can’t analyze unfamiliar music. Half can’t identify differences between pitch. People will resent having to pay money to be subjected to something they can’t understand. For most they could get the same experience paying a cover charge to attend a lecture on quantum physics.
- Sep 4, 2010
- 3,304
- 2,730
- Disclosures
- Endorsing: Martin Keith Guitars
have a clear idea what success means to you - you need people who are ok with that.
Have a clear musical identity and understanding what comes with that in terms of expected commitment - running a jazz band for a weekly restaurant gig where the musicians are very good and nobody rehearses because they are all reading the real book, and that is the definition of success there, is not the same as running a classic rock tribute band with a number of meticulously worked out and rehearsed set lists because they need to flow flawlessly in order to be successful at that kind of thing.
You need people who can take on the extra tasks and are good with it, and you need people who bring good vibes. The best lesson I learned was working with a drummer who was not a good drummer, but worth his weight in gold because he did the money (really well, he was an accountant) and he had this sunny disposition no matter what happened or what kinda shitshow we were in in the middle of nowhere. I was SO happy to have him in the band - I supported him musically as well as I could, because he could do things I wasn’t that good at.
Have a clear musical identity and understanding what comes with that in terms of expected commitment - running a jazz band for a weekly restaurant gig where the musicians are very good and nobody rehearses because they are all reading the real book, and that is the definition of success there, is not the same as running a classic rock tribute band with a number of meticulously worked out and rehearsed set lists because they need to flow flawlessly in order to be successful at that kind of thing.
You need people who can take on the extra tasks and are good with it, and you need people who bring good vibes. The best lesson I learned was working with a drummer who was not a good drummer, but worth his weight in gold because he did the money (really well, he was an accountant) and he had this sunny disposition no matter what happened or what kinda shitshow we were in in the middle of nowhere. I was SO happy to have him in the band - I supported him musically as well as I could, because he could do things I wasn’t that good at.
JazznFunk
Supporting Member
I'm never down with this complete dismissal of doing something original. Every cover that we all recognize now was once an unknown original.
That being said - define your expectations about material first, before all else. Some people will see being in a cover band as 'easy' because there's no unfamiliar material to suss out.... it's all there. Recordings to reference, chords in the public domain to research, etc. Some people REALLY DIG being part of something original, even if it's just a few songs here and there thrown in. I refuse to accept the notion that people don't have the appetite for original music. I have years of evidence and kind words from complete strangers in the audience who come up after one of our shows and ask 'what standard was that in the first set?' I proudly tell them it was an original.
If your absolute goal is to gig quickly and try to make several dollars doing it, then the cover band route will get you there. If you and the players you are seeking are willing to put in the work, especially if you have other writers you come across, you might have a lot of fun and make the same several dollars doing originals AND covers. If you are a discerning enough writer and listener, you'll know if something you write and arrange sounds good to others - because it has to sound good to YOU first. YMMV.
All of that aside, my main points to consider are this: musicianship (it's very frustrating to deal with players who say they're good but then show that they have major deficiences), GOOD EARS (this overrules any virtuosity issues or lack of it on their specific instrument IMO), punctuality and responsibility, availability (schedules, etc), and substance abuse issues. Finding people who play great, are professional and responsible, are available, and who don't have substance abuse issues are out there... but they want to be paid, and are often busy already. Finding people willing to commit to a project who may not check all of those boxes are out there in some form and may be undiscovered gems in your scene.... but it's all about figuring out the balance you're able to accommodate as the de-facto leader.
Be upfront about expectations. Not everyone wants to tour. Not everyone wants to be in a band that is another 'job', especially if the initial prospect to make several dollars will take a while to build. There are SO MANY factors to suss out and be ready to communicate. Good luck!
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I'd get rid of the many "intermediate" qualifiers you have,
some players beyond intermediate may be looking for this kind of style
--
I'm looking to form a band with Neo Soul / Jazz Funk / Lo-Fi Hip Hop influences.
I'm 33 years old and have been playing bass for 17 years.
I'm hardworking, punctual, and have a fairly good ear. I can work with sheet music if needed.
--
Instagram videos are not accessible to non-Instagram users.
maybe you wan to filter out old folks like me, idk
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LEVEL & AMBITION: Semi-Pro
You don’t need to be a virtuoso, but clean playing and real commitment are a must.
the goal is to perform live, without necessarily aiming to make this our main professional activity.
Any revenue from gigs or other activities will be split equally
--
ROLES:
I have skills in communication and project management, so I can handle a lot of the logistics and social media.
I’d welcome help with musical direction, recordings, etc. We’ll define roles based on everyone’s skills and preferences.
---
---
Is the ad actually in English, or is this translated?
Some of the amateur sounding implications of "intermediate" and " I'll need help..." may not be the same in French.
It sounds like a fun project,
bonne chance!
some players beyond intermediate may be looking for this kind of style
--
I'm looking to form a band with Neo Soul / Jazz Funk / Lo-Fi Hip Hop influences.
I'm 33 years old and have been playing bass for 17 years.
I'm hardworking, punctual, and have a fairly good ear. I can work with sheet music if needed.
--
Instagram videos are not accessible to non-Instagram users.
maybe you wan to filter out old folks like me, idk
--
LEVEL & AMBITION: Semi-Pro
You don’t need to be a virtuoso, but clean playing and real commitment are a must.
the goal is to perform live, without necessarily aiming to make this our main professional activity.
Any revenue from gigs or other activities will be split equally
--
ROLES:
I have skills in communication and project management, so I can handle a lot of the logistics and social media.
I’d welcome help with musical direction, recordings, etc. We’ll define roles based on everyone’s skills and preferences.
---
---
Is the ad actually in English, or is this translated?
Some of the amateur sounding implications of "intermediate" and " I'll need help..." may not be the same in French.
It sounds like a fun project,
bonne chance!
This X 1000. It doesn't matter how good of a musician everyone is, how good they are on the business end of things or how enthusiastic they are. If everyone's expectations and needs are not in line, the band is doomed to failure sooner or later. It's hard because many folks are not up front about their expectations and the problems don't emerge until you're down the road a ways.
My advice is don't
But seriously if you do it, be prepared to be not only the musical director, responsible for personnel, arrangements, charts, etc., but also the business manager, the bookie, the producer, the promoter and the roadie. A large proportion of the work is not musical.
But seriously if you do it, be prepared to be not only the musical director, responsible for personnel, arrangements, charts, etc., but also the business manager, the bookie, the producer, the promoter and the roadie. A large proportion of the work is not musical.
