First-timer in cover band, got a few questions...

[Vinz Clortho]

A professional acts in a professional manner for their pride, not because of the merits of the gig. I've seen an unbelievable amount of 'amateur hour' antics because it's only, [fill in the excuse].

Sorry, but if you are accepting a gig, any gig, you owe it your best effort.

I didn't say that I'd half-ass it... I made an observation. I'm trying to find ways to make the best of a less-than-ideal situation, not bilk the bar owner out of his money while acting the fool. The excellent advice I've received has help me do as such. No need to make inferences regarding my lack of work ethic, etc.

The band is doing randomly-selected Top 40 blues, rock and country from 1970 onwards - Steppenwolf, CSNY, Little Big Town, Colbie Callait. Kind of an odd mix; BL brought the set list from her old outfit. I've added in a few suggestions here and there as well ("Marrakesh Express," "Locked Out of Heaven").

 

[lfmn16]

I didn't say that I'd half-ass it... I made an observation. I'm trying to find ways to make the best of a less-than-ideal situation, not bilk the bar owner out of his money while acting the fool. The excellent advice I've received has help me do as such. No need to make inferences regarding my lack of work ethic, etc.

The band is doing randomly-selected Top 40 blues, rock and country from 1970 onwards - Steppenwolf, CSNY, Little Big Town, Colbie Callait. Kind of an odd mix; BL brought the set list from her old outfit. I've added in a few suggestions here and there as well ("Marrakesh Express," "Locked Out of Heaven").

My comment was based on your post that said, "this gig is pretty low-stakes ... I'd normally be running around worrying about checklists, load-in times, etc. ... The pay isn't inconsequential but it's not professional-grade based upon figures that I've seen quoted here and elsewhere."

I don't really have a dog in the fight. My only point is that IMHO there are no unimportant gigs and they should all be approached in the same professional manner. No need for consternation.

 

[EastCoastThump]

It sounds like your singer doesn't have a huge repertoire. Still: "pop, rock, blues, and country from 1970s on"? There must be thousands of simple songs built on one or two standard progressions. If you can share singing duties (so your front doesn't have to memorize *all* the lyrics), with a little digging you can find enough "Stand By Me"s or "The Thrill Is Gone"s or "What I Got"s to get through 3 or 4 hours on a pick-up gig.

 

[modulusman]

Here's an old trick - if you don't quite have four sets of music ready, when set four comes around, replay set one. Maybe in a different order so the bartender doesn't notice.... but most customers who were there during set one will be long gone by set 4 anyway.

I've always figured that ~8 songs covers a set of 45-50 minutes, for what that's worth.

Seriously you guys must dick off a lot between songs or they are wank fests for the guitar players. The average song is about 3 to 4 minutes long.

 

[tspallone]

We just did a gig encompassing 3 hrs. We took about a 25 minute break in between sets so, we actually played about 2.5 hrs. We had enough songs but, just barely. Played about 5 blues songs (would that mean that that's 5 individual songs, or just 1???? ..............I digress.....)

The guy who booked the thing arranged for some singer to do 3 songs that we had rehearsed a few days before. The PA kinda crapped out and I felt that the 3 singer songs didn't go down very well.

We're basically a 3-piece jazz/nu-smooth jazz instrumental deal. Just heard last night that the owner of the joint wants us back for a Friday night BUT, the singer HAS to be part of the whole deal. They actually said, "It's ALLLLLLLL about the singer".

This gig is in about a month I think but there are other gigs in between of different variety to prep for and I believe that the drummer told the owner that he didn't feel we had enough songs.

The OWNER said, "ehhhhhh, just repeat stuff".

The other two guys are against that.

Me, not so sure.

I did a quick thing with a new project about 6 months ago where we had to do an hour. We quickly threw 5 or 6 songs together and of course, had to repeat. Repeating a song WITHIN AN HOUR???? Doesn't make ME feel good.

But, in a 3/50-minute set night, spotty repeating of some songs, perhaps I could be talked into. Again, all blues sounds the same to me so I suppose you can play an hour of blues, change the key and tempo and call it a different song but, ......

I dunno....

 

[strictlybass_ic]

My cover band would usually come in with ~45-50 songs on our set list for the night (figure about 4 minutes average for a song). Typically we would play 3 ~1 hour sets with 15-20 minute breaks in between. Not sure about your band, but we generally talk to the audience, do a bit of interaction here and there throughout the set, so that takes up some slack throughout the night and is a great way to keep things lively while someone is tuning, etc. Generally we load the catchy, exciting, dance oriented stuff into the first two sets. The third set was where we would play the stuff we had fun with (things with long solos, dueling guitars, longer songs, etc). By the third set most everyone is "lubricated" and will still be interested even if you're playing stuff that's more for yourselves than them.

As for repeats, I know some people do it, personally I prefer to avoid it. It's true most people will not notice, but I just prefer to have a complete set with no repeats. Thankfully my band mates agreed.

As for pay, generally just evenly split, unless someone is pulling more than their weight, and everyone has agreed to that beforehand.

 

[Nev375]

My comment was based on your post that said, "this gig is pretty low-stakes ... I'd normally be running around worrying about checklists, load-in times, etc. ... The pay isn't inconsequential but it's not professional-grade based upon figures that I've seen quoted here and elsewhere."

I don't really have a dog in the fight. My only point is that IMHO there are no unimportant gigs and they should all be approached in the same professional manner. No need for consternation.

The way you make it sound, I hope you have a good cardiologist.

It's a bar gig, not the half-time show at the Super-bowl or World Olympics. And by me saying that, I'm not trying to say a person should half-ass the gig or it's not important to do your best or sound good.

What I'm saying is that its a new band and a lot of you are approaching this from the perspective of your current experienced bands with a full set list and all.

It is important for a new band to get out and get started just a little bit before they are ready. The reason is that ready never comes. It's a perfectionist mindset. There's always a few more things to learn, a few more situations to be prepared for, a few more this or that that boil down to excuses to not do the gig, and it's a trap. You just have to be ready ENOUGH to pull off a decent show for some drunks. Let's face facts here, it's not Carnegie Hall and people are not going to notice every mistake.

BUT THE BAND will notice the mistakes and believe you me, once you make that mistake on stage and feel a bit embarrassed about it, it will probably be the last time ever and that's where the REAL band growth and professionalism develop. Not in the basement. A mistake in the basement is easily overlooked and forgotten.

Always put on the best show you can, but realize you are not professionals yet and the only way to become professional is through stage experience... So get on stage and get started as soon as you feel you are almost ready.

 

[ArtechnikA]

It's a bar gig, not the half-time show at the Super-bowl...

'Cause if it were, they'd just be singing to pre-recorded tracks anyway ;-)

I agree with what you've said here. Along with the recognition that the best you can do will probably not be as good as the best someone else can do. But it's about doing it - and building on it. And recognizing that it is a low-stakes environment can possibly (probably?) lead to a better first time, since relaxed but focused is probably a better state of mind than stage-fright focused...

 

[Jeb]

You're not ready for a cover band gig.

You, and your band, need to be able to play songs that the BL calls on the fly. Your BL needs to be able to read the crowd and make proper adjustments on the fly. The band needs to be able to follow that lead. It all needs to be tight (and the vocals are the most important). That's what good cover bands do. Otherwise its just going to be a mess.

I think that people who dance to cover bands are very particular. They listen to the vocals and music first and if that's cool then they might be "into the band". They don't think that the band is cool unless the band delivers what they like. The band always thinks that they are cool regardless. That's a wrong guess 99% of the time.

 

[BayStateBass]

I've always been a coverband player. Dabbled in originals, but nothing serious. It sounds like the band isn't quite ready for a four hour gig if you don't have enough music. We primarily do 4 hour gigs and we usually play somewhere in the area of 50-55 songs. Maybe a little less. Depends on the crowd, and what else is going on. And depends on the band. Some bands just roll song, to song, to song, while others have a short stop between songs. A lot depends on your frontperson. If they can entertain and form a rapport with the crowd, you aren't pressed to do 15-18 songs a set because they can fill up time. I've seen bands do as few as 10 songs a set and still be entertaining. Depends on the band. Depends on the audience. There is no "this is correct, this is not" thing here. The one thing that is correct is that no matter how many, or how few, songs you play they should sound good and be tight. Some mistakes are okay. It happens. Anyone who tells you otherwise is probably lying. What you can't do is get totally lost in a song and butcher it. Okay, well, maybe one a night, ha ha. The key here is do what you do well. In my own experience, the band only gets better once they're gigging. You can only get just so tight in a basement. You just gotta get out there and do it. Getting thrown in for a 4 hour gig your first time out is kinda rough, unless you're just a group of very experienced guys with a fairly long list of songs you already know, as a group.

 

[lfmn16]

It is important for a new band to get out and get started just a little bit before they are ready. The reason is that ready never comes. It's a perfectionist mindset. There's always a few more things to learn, a few more situations to be prepared for, a few more this or that that boil down to excuses to not do the gig, and it's a trap. You just have to be ready ENOUGH to pull off a decent show for some drunks. Let's face facts here, it's not Carnegie Hall and people are not going to notice every mistake.

There is nothing perfectionist about knowing enough songs to play a gig without repeating. I agree that for a new band not everyone has the tenacity to wait until they are completely ready before playing out. My only comments, and I stand by them, are that you need to know enough songs and there are no throw-away gigs; you need to approach every gig in a professional manner as possible. Everyone is entitled to their own standards and YMMV.

 

[BayStateBass]

The way you make it sound, I hope you have a good cardiologist.

It's a bar gig, not the half-time show at the Super-bowl or World Olympics. And by me saying that, I'm not trying to say a person should half-ass the gig or it's not important to do your best or sound good.

What I'm saying is that its a new band and a lot of you are approaching this from the perspective of your current experienced bands with a full set list and all.

It is important for a new band to get out and get started just a little bit before they are ready. The reason is that ready never comes. It's a perfectionist mindset. There's always a few more things to learn, a few more situations to be prepared for, a few more this or that that boil down to excuses to not do the gig, and it's a trap. You just have to be ready ENOUGH to pull off a decent show for some drunks. Let's face facts here, it's not Carnegie Hall and people are not going to notice every mistake.

BUT THE BAND will notice the mistakes and believe you me, once you make that mistake on stage and feel a bit embarrassed about it, it will probably be the last time ever and that's where the REAL band growth and professionalism develop. Not in the basement. A mistake in the basement is easily overlooked and forgotten.

Always put on the best show you can, but realize you are not professionals yet and the only way to become professional is through stage experience... So get on stage and get started as soon as you feel you are almost ready.

One of the best posts I've read in a long time. IMO, spot-on.

 

[mellowinman]

I couldn't agree less.

 

[bassinflorida]

I just couldn't agree.

 

[BayStateBass]

There's always going to be a difference of opinion. I've seen all types, as I'm sure a lot of you have. The guy who never wants to rehearse, and just wants to "wing it" out there on stage and baffle the audience with B.S. Then there's the guy who thinks it should take a year to have 25 songs down note for note, exact, perfect, duplication of the original recording in every way. And everything in between. I never want to play with either of the first two guys. But I do agree with Nev375 in that there is only just so far you can go in rehearsal. Sooner or later, you gotta get out there and lay it on the line. You can rehearse day after day, night after night, have hundreds of songs you know, but it isn't until you actually get out and play them for a crowd that you find out what your band is made of. I don't think it's a terrible thing to go out and do a show when you're "just about ready". It will show you what you've got. Which is way better than spending a huge amount of time in rehearsal, just to go up on stage and find out a bandmate, or bandmates, completely fall apart on stage. Personally, I do agree with him, although I know a lot of people probably wouldn't, or don't.

Now, how you do that is another thing entirely. Should you have enough music? Absolutely. Is it a mortal sin to repeat songs? Nope. You certainly don't want to show up for a 4 hour gig with 12 songs, but spooning in a few repeats isn't the end of the world, especially if you play certain ones killer and they are good songs, and you can preface it with something like "We got a request to play this one again.....We're glad you liked it so much, so here you go!". It happens. Bands do it. A lot of times if it's been a few sets since you last played it, you'll get away with it. Do you want to make a habit of it? Probably not. It should be a temporary crutch if you use it at all. For some bands it's tougher because they don't have people in and out during a show....like our band, typically we're blessed (or cursed) enough that people just don't leave until the end. If you really don't have enough music to fill 4 hours, at least reasonably, you probably should take a shorter job or wait until you think you do have enough. Maybe better to see if you can open for a band, play an hour or so, see what you've got that way. Or maybe not. Maybe just jump right in and see if you sink or swim, especially if you're "really, really close". You gotta take opportunities when they come up, because for a new band you just don't know when that might be, the one place that is willing to take that chance, and give you your first gig (presumably paid one).

These discussions are always good, and you can get an idea of how other people do it or how they view it, but in the end they don't establish a solid answer because everyone has their way of doing it, and each person is different. Each situation is different.

 

[Vinz Clortho]

As I get deeper into this and we have more and more rehearsals a few things are becoming apparent to me about this ensemble:

1) Lack of organization. I'm trying to keep our repertoire in a Google Drive spreadsheet so that we know who's playing what, who's singing, whether we know the song, etc. and I'm basically the only one looking at it let alone maintaining it. The canonical set list for our gig tomorrow still hasn't been entirely worked out. I'm writing up a quick 'n dirty load-out list and nobody's looked at that either.

2) Lack of what I call "rational decision making." Songs are launched into while members are switching instruments or tuning, which to me defeats the purpose of rehearsal (and these are short latencies, not minutes-long ones). Attempts at songs that half the members don't know will be made during practice, but not before I voice my opinion that a wiser use of our time might be to listen to the song in question on an individual basis and then come to the next rehearsal prepared to play it. On Wednesday it was suggested that we learn six new songs for the gig, which I felt was not a good idea given that we still need to iron out kinks with songs that we have been practicing for an extended period, not to mention the short lead time.

3) Lack of reinforcement of learned material/individual practice. I'm as guilty as anybody of this, but I've committed to memorizing lyrics to all of the songs that I'm singing vocals on as well as the music itself to every song, yet there's still a binder full of [very poorly formatted] charts and lyrics on a music stand at each and every practice. I'm usually reminding people of how songs lead in or start or how particular passages go. As our first gig has drawn nearer I've definitely tightened up and nailed down everything that I need to know, and I don't think the same is happening with the other members. It's fair to say that I do have less net material to remember since I'm only singing lead on a few songs, but still.

Let's not get it twisted - I'm not some paragon of musical genius or anything, but these are definite impediments to our progress as a group. I'm perfectly fine dealing with varying levels of musical and technical literacy but stuff like this to me is a little bit irksome. I'm going to see how this gig tomorrow pans out then broach these at the following rehearsal. If something goes awry while we're on stage then I'll be justified, and if it turns out that my anal retentive tendencies are surfacing unnecessarily then I'll just shut the frak up and start helping myself to a beer or two during practice.

 

[BayStateBass]

As I get deeper into this and we have more and more rehearsals a few things are becoming apparent to me about this ensemble:

1) Lack of organization. I'm trying to keep our repertoire in a Google Drive spreadsheet so that we know who's playing what, who's singing, whether we know the song, etc. and I'm basically the only one looking at it let alone maintaining it. The canonical set list for our gig tomorrow still hasn't been entirely worked out. I'm writing up a quick 'n dirty load-out list and nobody's looked at that either.

2) Lack of what I call "rational decision making." Songs are launched into while members are switching instruments or tuning, which to me defeats the purpose of rehearsal (and these are short latencies, not minutes-long ones). Attempts at songs that half the members don't know will be made during practice, but not before I voice my opinion that a wiser use of our time might be to listen to the song in question on an individual basis and then come to the next rehearsal prepared to play it. On Wednesday it was suggested that we learn six new songs for the gig, which I felt was not a good idea given that we still need to iron out kinks with songs that we have been practicing for an extended period, not to mention the short lead time.

3) Lack of reinforcement of learned material/individual practice. I'm as guilty as anybody of this, but I've committed to memorizing lyrics to all of the songs that I'm singing vocals on as well as the music itself to every song, yet there's still a binder full of [very poorly formatted] charts and lyrics on a music stand at each and every practice. I'm usually reminding people of how songs lead in or start or how particular passages go. As our first gig has drawn nearer I've definitely tightened up and nailed down everything that I need to know, and I don't think the same is happening with the other members. It's fair to say that I do have less net material to remember since I'm only singing lead on a few songs, but still.

Let's not get it twisted - I'm not some paragon of musical genius or anything, but these are definite impediments to our progress as a group. I'm perfectly fine dealing with varying levels of musical and technical literacy but stuff like this to me is a little bit irksome. I'm going to see how this gig tomorrow pans out then broach these at the following rehearsal. If something goes awry while we're on stage then I'll be justified, and if it turns out that my anal retentive tendencies are surfacing unnecessarily then I'll just shut the frak up and start helping myself to a beer or two during practice.

After reading this, I'm sorry to say you are doomed. Any group that tries to learn the songs at rehearsal is doomed. Been there, done that, will never do it again. It will take forever to get out there and it won't be good when you do. If you don't have everyone on board with effort and dedication, it usually doesn't go very far.

Do what your gut tells you, but based on my experience with similar groups, it rarely ends well.

 

[ArtechnikA]

After reading this, I'm sorry to say you are doomed.

Does sound like it...
I think all even the supporters said originally was "give it your best shot and see how it goes."
So you're getting a trial by fire.
Record and video the gig.
If, after group review, the group agrees "That could have gone better and we were not as prepared as I thought we were" avoid the temptation to say "I told you so" and you'll have one of three choices. Everyone will agree they don't want to do it again, goodbye. Or everyone will agree they understand they have to work much, much harder to make it better. Or everyone will say "Meh, that's as good as it gets..."

Interestingly, there is a 2-word test of leadership: "Follow Me!" If they don't, you are _not_ the leader.
I've forgotten and I'm not going back to Page One to review...
Are you supposed to be the leader?
If not - why are you trying to manage every detail? And yet surprised that people are not following...

I agree someone's expectations are in for a recalibration.
It does sound like it may not be a good match for you without some changes in attitudes...

 

[Vinz Clortho]

Does sound like it...
I think all even the supporters said originally was "give it your best shot and see how it goes."
So you're getting a trial by fire.
Record and video the gig.
If, after group review, the group agrees "That could have gone better and we were not as prepared as I thought we were" avoid the temptation to say "I told you so" and you'll have one of three choices. Everyone will agree they don't want to do it again, goodbye. Or everyone will agree they understand they have to work much, much harder to make it better. Or everyone will say "Meh, that's as good as it gets..."

Interestingly, there is a 2-word test of leadership: "Follow Me!" If they don't, you are _not_ the leader.
I've forgotten and I'm not going back to Page One to review...
Are you supposed to be the leader?
If not - why are you trying to manage every detail? And yet surprised that people are not following...

I agree someone's expectations are in for a recalibration.
It does sound like it may not be a good match for you without some changes in attitudes...

I'm not the BL but I'm de-facto second in command since I've got the PA, rehearsal space and I'm pulling the aforementioned organizational weight. I'm not trying to manage every detail so much as fill in what I perceive as gaps in our process. I defer to BL on song arrangement, booking, payment, song choice et al but I do try to take care of some of the "dirty work." I may be totally off-base on all of this and taking it too seriously, but then again I don't want something super serious, just something serious enough to sound good on a consistent basis and therefore all the more fun. What gets me is that these are in all honesty minor gripes that I have and I feel that by addressing them our whole experience would be a LOT more enjoyable.

This is all academic though as the BL is gonna be away for 8 weeks or something like that sometime soon. I'll see how things shake out when we play as a trio.

 

[BayStateBass]

Does sound like it...
I think all even the supporters said originally was "give it your best shot and see how it goes."
So you're getting a trial by fire.
Record and video the gig.
If, after group review, the group agrees "That could have gone better and we were not as prepared as I thought we were" avoid the temptation to say "I told you so" and you'll have one of three choices. Everyone will agree they don't want to do it again, goodbye. Or everyone will agree they understand they have to work much, much harder to make it better. Or everyone will say "Meh, that's as good as it gets..."

Interestingly, there is a 2-word test of leadership: "Follow Me!" If they don't, you are _not_ the leader.
I've forgotten and I'm not going back to Page One to review...
Are you supposed to be the leader?
If not - why are you trying to manage every detail? And yet surprised that people are not following...

I agree someone's expectations are in for a recalibration.
It does sound like it may not be a good match for you without some changes in attitudes...

Yeah, good points.

I may have been hasty in stating what I did. In reading through, it just brought back bad memories when I've been in bands and noticed the same things. There was always a lot of frustration when I was in those situations.