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Flag At Half Staff For WHO?

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#41
To me it isn't a matter of judging Whitney Houston's individual merit for the honor but the fact that I don't believe ANY entertainer's death should be a reason for having the flag flown at half mast. At least not simply for being a great athlete, singer, musician, radio personality etc.

My view is that flying the flag at half mast is a gesture reserved for the passing of someone who served their country in a very meaningful and public way.
 
#42
BurningSkies said:
I always find it interesting how the general public reacts to someone's passing. In many ways they reinvent the person.

While Whitney Houston was a soul/pop singer with a number of hits, strong selling albums and movies to her name, and recognized as having a good voice, it isn't until she died that all of a sudden she's 'risen' to having the world's best voice, expanded soul singing to new levels of something or other...etc. I get that she meant more to some than others, but there's a whole lot of bandwagoners every time someone dies.

One of the people in our office has been using it for drama all week. They came in Monday talking about how much they were the hugest fan (funny, given they'd never mentioned it in years), and how they were devastated by it...and also by the fact that the CD store had run out of her CD's, because he needed to buy them. Huh? Hugest fan ever, right? When I'm a fan of someone, I tend to have actually purchased an album or 50 by that artist.
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This is what I was saying about Michael Jackson, except I didn't mention his name earlier. He was Wacko Jacko for YEARS. Called a pervert, pedophile, nut job, child dangling fruit loop. Granted, he had a lot of hits, pioneered pop music and was very popular in his younger years, but ALL was forgotten after he passed. The media painted a picture of a loving, stable father. It's the same with Whitney.

just saying
 
#43
Jared Lash said:
To me it isn't a matter of judging Whitney Houston's individual merit for the honor but the fact that I don't believe ANY entertainer's death should be a reason for having the flag flown at half mast. At least not simply for being a great athlete, singer, musician, radio personality etc.

My view is that flying the flag at half mast is a gesture reserved for the passing of someone who served their country in a very meaningful and public way.
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+1,000,000
 
#45
nickbass79 said:
This is what I was saying about Michael Jackson, except I didn't mention his name earlier. He was Wacko Jacko for YEARS. Called a pervert, pedophile, nut job, child dangling fruit loop. Granted, he had a lot of hits, pioneered pop music and was very popular in his younger years, but ALL was forgotten after he passed. The media painted a picture of a loving, stable father. It's the same with Whitney.

just saying
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It certainly happens with some personalities more than others. For instance, after Ronald Reagan left office he was generally not seen as having been a very good President. Without getting into details, it wasn't until his death that he became a transcendent figure.

Princess Diana is certainly a whole different person dead than alive.
 
#46
MatticusMania said:
Personally, I draw the line at poor role model crack heads when it comes to anything half mast.
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This.

Jinro said:
There's a difference between a weakness and a lack of integrity.
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This...

Jared Lash said:
To me it isn't a matter of judging Whitney Houston's individual merit for the honor but the fact that I don't believe ANY entertainer's death should be a reason for having the flag flown at half mast. At least not simply for being a great athlete, singer, musician, radio personality etc.

My view is that flying the flag at half mast is a gesture reserved for the passing of someone who served their country in a very meaningful and public way.
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And THIS.
 
#52
It turns out that 09/11/91 was the day that George Bush gave his New World Order speech. That's George Herbert Walker Bush...Remember him? ;)

And to my previous point, several articles about Whitney show a link to 'LISTEN TO WHITNEY HOUSTON'S MOST IMPORTANT HITS'. They're not her greatest hits, they're not her best selling, or most popular hits. Now they're IMPORTANT hits. How so? How did they expand upon what a singer is capable of doing, or how did they advance the art that is lead singing, or what major sea-change in the technique of singing or what singers did after that point do they evince?
 
#56
Jinro said:
It's New Jersey. What do you expect?
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Cheap Shot :scowl:

Houston was born and raised in New Jersey, and unlike so many others who rose to the top tier of 'stardom' she chose to remain a resident here long after she had the means to live anywhere else in the world she chose (FWIW she also happened to live in the same little upscale burg in North Jersey as the Governor)

I was not a fan of her style of singing, and have been slammed repeatedly on this and other forums for freely expressing my strong disapproval of the supposed "masterpiece" that was her famous Super Bowl performance of the National Anthem. Nevertheless, she was always closely associated with the State where she lived, and on balance she was an net asset to New Jersey, not a liability

As far as the Governor's reasoning, I'd say it is likely to be one of the few times I will ever agree with him on anything

Governor Christie said:
I am disturbed by people who believe that because her ultimate demise - and we don't know what is the cause of her death yet - but because of her history of substance abuse that somehow she's forfeited the good things that she did in her life. I just reject that on a human level
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Amen

I'm waiting for real fallen heroes to be honored the way they should--as in more than these celebrities.
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First off: to the best of my knowledge, every time an Armed Forces member from New Jersey dies in action while on deployment the Governor orders all state flags to be flown at half-mast

It has also been my personal observation that funerals of servicemembers who died in the line of duty are remarkably well attended by others who live and work in the same community as the parents and/or next of kin. In New Jersey, we give due respect to our own at times like these - every time - and do what little we can to ease the grief of their loved ones. Can the state of Tennessee claim to do more?

Secondly: Since when is a member of the Armed Forces automatically a "hero"?

That is a term that used to be reserved for those who were awarded a Bronze Star or above for actions in combat far and above the basic duties that they signed up for - including going into harm's way on a regular basis. Nowdays it is unfortunately also applied to every two-bit REMF who died in a car accident on an overseas base, 100 miles or more from actual combat

The mere act of serving in the Armed Forces does not make someone a hero and neither does the mere act of doing the job you signed up to do. IMHO the term "hero" is properly reserved for those who do Far More than what they agreed to when they signed their enlistment contract (or were Commssisioned)

I would submit that you will find more real "heroes" in your local Fire Department than you will on the average military base, and it is rare indeed that you will see those same firefighters get even a fraction of the recognition given to, say, a returning Supply Clerk who sat out their entire deployment in an air-conditioned office building in Kuwait or Germany
 
#57
Jinro said:
You might want to retake History class.
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LOL You do realize that the "Dr." in Dr. Cheese stands for Doctor of Philosophy in History, right? :D

With that said, I do disagree with Dr. on the ambassador part. Bono is a musical ambassador, but most musicians - or celebrities in general - haven't put their money where their mouths are to the extent that Bono has. And Bono's from Ireland, anyways. :D
 
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