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Flatwound strings (metal or tape wrapped) increase tension over time(?)

Sammy_frm_Miami

Sammy_frm_Miami

Nov 12, 2017
6
7
#1
Hi, Luthiers! I am a bass newbie and definitely not a Luthier. But, I figured you folks would be the most experienced to evaluate this statement my new (first) electric bass instructor told me.

(I showed up with my short scale (I have very short fingers) Squier Jaguar with RotoSound 77s on it. I used to play an upright acoustic bass, so I want to get as close as I can to that sound. Hence the "thumpy(?)" flats. I also have a set of D'A Chromes to try and am looking for a set of La Bella Deep Talkin' Bass strings. All to see how close to acoustic I can get.)

Anyway, he said "tape-wound" strings (but I think he meant flat-wound as opposed to half rounds or round wound - he likes both of those) increase in tension over the years and if you are not careful, they will bow the neck of a bass guitar towards the fretboard. Therefore it is best to change the strings every couple of years. The thinking is that the flat windings eventually pull lengthwise along the string (chinese handcuff style?) and compress the diameter of the string increasing its tension.

I think that's perhaps an urban legend (but not in the same class as your serious discussions about best bass myths ;-).

I can see that as metal is under tension for a long time, it will essentially relax into its new length and if it's a string, sound dead or be very low in pitch and have to be tuned back up to pitch. It would also become lower in tension if it actually "relaxed" into its new, stretched length. The same thing happens to metal when it's formed by a press, hammer and anvil or drawn into wire. Once it gets to its new state (or shape), it may shrink back a little (a few thousandths maybe), but mostly stays where it got stretched or formed to.

Now, I know nothing about bass string structure other than it's a wire core with several layers of wire and/or other material wound over the core and is designed to act like a fat piece of wire. But it seems reasonable that the tension wouldn't rise of its own accord without cranking the machine heads to make the string tighter.

And, if this is true, what's special about half round or round wound strings? No chinese handcuffs?

(And... What about Mr. Truss Rod?)

I know your answers will be a LOT shorter than my question and I thank you in advance for sharing what you have actually seen in your years as Luthiers.

Best regards,

Sammy
 
#2
Totally bogus statement. If strings did increase in tension the pitch goes higher and you're out of tune.

Flatwounds are higher tension than rounds, thats true but not harmful to the neck. The trussrod takes much of the stress of the bowing action of the tension away from the wood length and distributes it to the two anchor point ends.

Time under string tension is what causes the wood to SET into a curve.

Tape wounds means the outer wraps are flat plastic strip. You'll see them listed as tapewounds by string makers. Flatwounds always means metal tape wrapped. The terms are not the same.
 
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#5
lz4005 said:
That is not categorically true. It depends entirely on gauge.
Click to expand...

True this... All other things being equal, round core flat wounds are Stiffer than round core round wounds (and sometimes, hex core rounds, too) because of the flat outer wrap. Stiffness is Not the same thing as tension - although your fingers will certainly think so. Most flat wounds, gauge for gauge, are pretty much the same tension as the same gauge rounds; they just don't feel like it (that stiffness thing). There are exceptions, of course; both ways. Nobody, for instance has ever accused TI Jazz Flats of being "high tension" - or even being stiff, for that matter. La Bella 1954 Original Flats, OTOH, are high tension strings. Use whatever flavor of flats you want. As to your other questions?
- No, the strings will not increase in tension over time. Some alloys will return to their original state after being in tension (stretched); some will not. But, I know of no metals that will increase in tension on their own. That's bogus.. Most of the alloys that are used for strings will stretch over time, to accommodate the tension. Which is why, when strings start to go out of tune; don't want to go back in tune; and don't want to intonate any more, you know they're dead. And need to be replaced. Flats will do this, too; but it generally takes them much, much longer to do it than rounds.
- There's nothing particularly special about rounds or half-rounds. Round wound strings are simply strings with a round wire outer wrap. This makes them much "brighter" sounding than flat wound strings. Lots and lots of bass players today prefer "bright", over the "thump" of flats. Sadly though - if you're the buyer, not the seller - rounds will loose that brightness pretty quickly (and die pretty soon thereafter), and have to be replaced. Flats, OTOH, can - and do - last for years and years... Half rounds are simply round wound strings that have been ground semi-flat, in an attempt to make your fingers happy with some smoothness, while giving you that "bright" sound, too. They also die pretty quickly...
- Mr. Truss Rod? He's there to help keep your bass'neck the way you want it; but mainly as the way to get the neck curve (the "relief") correct for the strings you're using, and the way you like to play them. Yes, if you switch from Brand X flats to Brand Y rounds, you should check the neck relief, and loosen/tighten the truss rod as necessary to keep the relief you like. You should do that any time you make a change in string type, brand, or gauge. That's an essential part of a set up.
Hope that answers your questions. Play on...:thumbsup:
 
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#6
For a given mass of string, tension is constant at pitch.

The only way for tension to increase is to raise the pitch of the string. Lowering the pitch will have the opposite effect.

This is physics.
 
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#8
I think that there is a small amount of truth from which a story like this grows. Upright bass strings are a metal wrap around a synthetic (or gut) core. From what I understand, over tension and time, their outer wraps will tighten around the core, squeezing it and slightly compressing it. This makes the string stiffer feeling, but it doesn't increase the tension in the core. We run into this a lot around here when talking about strings: confusing stiffness and tension.

In a steel core electric bass string, that squeezing effect of the outer wrap is negligible. It's trying to squeeze a steel wire. It's not going to get very far.

So, that's probably what's behind what your teacher said. But it's misunderstood and doesn't apply to electric bass strings.
 
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#13
Bruce,

Thanks for linking the upright gut core + metal wrap and the electric metal core + metal wrap. That makes very good sense as to where this idea came from. I never really paid attention to the change in feel (stiffness) on my upright strings before. But now that I think about it, it did indeed feel stiffer as the years went along. But it's so gradual, you hardly notice it. Besides one is always tweaking the tuning anyway depending who you are playing with which makes it even harder to notice.

So the good news is that I don't have to worry about the evil flat-wounds pulling my new bass's neck into a banana and can relax and enjoy their sound playing my scales... (sorta). (Noodling around after "official" practice is really much more fun!)

Thank you all. Great discussion!

Sammy
 

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