Michael Fournelle in Montreal. I believe he personally retired but his shop still builds by commission.
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Flatwound vs nylontapewounds for upright sound
- Thread starter bassbass167
- Start date
What specifically is the modern jazz upright tone? Can you guys link me any songs, so I can listen
Yes, I get that. I wasn't necessarily commenting on the OP's specific case; it was a general comment regarding the grounding issue with tapewounds.
It is bass specific though. I’ve got mine thru-body. However I did a stellar job shielding it, and I’m using Barts, which are also quiet as a mouse. It can be done, but yes it is easy to get that ground by top loading. I’ve read some hilarious methods people have grounded themselves to get a tape wound bass quiet in the studio. I believe I read that in the tapewound club.
Tapes will probably sound the closest, but what will probably make a bigger difference is raising the action, turning down the amp, and plucking harder (which is the opposite of what you should do for general BG playing). The pizzicato double bass sound’s defining characteristic isn’t how bright or dark the tone is, it’s the thump from pulling the strings hard and the sharp attack and fast decay that comes from it. Some double bassists rely on an amp more than others (and thereby play more lightly), but the average jazz double bassist will still be plucking the strings much harder than the average bass guitarist.
Agreed, and that IMO is one more reason for preferring "regular" tapes ( = E string gauge between 110 and 115, or the internally flatwound, ergo heavier, GHS tapes) over the thinner sets, which can only be played with a moderate to featherlight touch. Nothing wrong with that, but if the specific goal is mimicking upright tones, playing with the side of the index, over the last frets or just past them, with some force, are each important ingredients.
I'd probably still pluck around the neck pickup (or where it would be): the fingerboard of a double bass tends to end around the B4–D5 area (which if we had a fretboard that long it would be frets 28–31) and jazz double bassists tend to pluck near the end of the fingerboard, which coincidentally is also roughly where a P bass pickup or the neck pickup of a J bass lies.
This is hard to describe. But ive noticed on some basses mimicking the upright sound, has this sort of crack in the sound. Kind of how the deep sound just becomes more buzz. And the sound becomes more like a regular bass, with what I call the kind of funky bass sound. To me that is more important in terms of mimicking a bas than how fast the attack and decay is in the tone
And now for something completely different: when I play my bubinga Kala U-bass with Aquila Silver Rumblers strings, I have been told that not only do I blend the best with the other uke players, but especially when we play jazz vocal standards, it sounds remarkably like a double bass, especially when being careful with my positions and right hand technique.
If your goal is to buy something to make one instrument sound like a totally different how about a Strat?
My suggestion would be LaBella Gold White Nylon (although, I've not yet tried the Copper White Nylon, so they may be better?)
You’ll get the best mimic of an upright from Rotosound 88s.
Well...
- The difference? Mainly - IME - tape wounds have a deep, woody tone, with a rapid decay. There are still low-mids and mids, but - depending on the bass's scale - not much in the way of high end. OTOH, flats - depending on the brand and gauge - can be all over the tonal range. But, the ones that are usually recommended for doing the upright thing, are the ones that are mainly about the "old school thump". And usually used with a mute...
- What is preferred? I'd say that it depends on the person doing the preferring - and how serious they are about the whole exercise. Personally? I've never been too serious about it - until recently, when I bought a custom fretless bass that, it turns out, was pretty obviously purpose - built to emulate an upright. And, it was expressly made to wear tape wounds. In the past, I've gotten... decent... results with La Bella DTF's on a semi-hollow 34" Danelectro DC59 Pro - and a mute. And, if I play it correctly (and technique is very important), my MIK Rogue VB-100 violin bass (with Rotosound TruBass88 Tapes) sounds very much like an upright. But, mainly, it sounds like Sir Paul's Hofner when he used those strings...
- Flats with nylons? Well, @michael_t has already answered that. They are not very common, but they do exist...
-Recommendations? I really like the Roto 88 tapes. My purpose-built bass - a 32" scale, '93 Fury Anthem lined fretless, is wearing them. And, it's actually kind of scary, how much like an upright bass it sounds. But, not quite exactly the same... And, I'll have to agree with @michael_t - again. My Fury Anthem HAS to be strung thru-body, and... yes, there is a slight grounding issue. I can't change the bridge without butchering the bass, so; I just live with it. OTOH, there's no grounding issue at all with the Rogue; ball ends are on a grounded trapeze tailpiece... However:
Use whatever strings make you happy; and remember - playing technique is important, too. Also; don't be too disappointed when you don't sound as much like an upright bass as you'd like. No electric bass ever has...
Wish I’d searched and found this comment before stringing my first ever tapewounds thru body on my passive bass and being greatly alarmed at the awful non-grounding hum I immediately encountered! Found this comment, top loaded ‘em and all is well
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