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Floor Monitors

#2
Haven't listened to all those, but I think my band will be selling our Yamaha CM12V monitors soon. The lead singer and I have moved to IEMs. You would be welcome to come by some time and hear them if you want, even if you're not interested in buying them. They're in terrific shape.
 
#10
Heavily despise the JBL PRX's, they are 2 ohm LF drivers driven by class D amps. That's what ghetto blaster and computer speakers are, low impedance speakers on amps that can barely handle them. Never have I heard mic stands ring like they do with PRX monitors with a quiet singer. Google "damping factor", it's ugly.

I'd take Yorkville NX25's over any PRX wedge. I'm not a Yorkie buff, but there's no arguing with how little EQ they need. I was skeptical as **** when I first used a pair, but I've never spent less time getting to know a wedge and they've never done anything but what I expected of them.

PRX's under heavy monitoring jobs constantly piss me off with feedback in the 100-180 range, like they're making the mic stands ring. I've tried shock-mount clips, different mics, same story. Their low damping factor is a deal-breaker. No such issue with NX25's. Lots of other good options out there, but beware of class D powered monitors if you need a quiet singer to hear themself.
 
#11
Tuned said:
Heavily despise the JBL PRX's, they are 2 ohm LF drivers driven by class D amps. That's what ghetto blaster and computer speakers are, low impedance speakers on amps that can barely handle them. Never have I heard mic stands ring like they do with PRX monitors with a quiet singer. Google "damping factor", it's ugly.

I'd take Yorkville NX25's over any PRX wedge. I'm not a Yorkie buff, but there's no arguing with how little EQ they need. I was skeptical as **** when I first used a pair, but I've never spent less time getting to know a wedge and they've never done anything but what I expected of them.

PRX's under heavy monitoring jobs constantly piss me off with feedback in the 100-180 range, like they're making the mic stands ring. I've tried shock-mount clips, different mics, same story. Their low damping factor is a deal-breaker. No such issue with NX25's. Lots of other good options out there, but beware of class D powered monitors if you need a quiet singer to hear themself.
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I don't think i have ever heard a mic stand ring.:confused: Buy a graphic and learn how to use it. The fact that an amp is class D has nothing to do with loudness.
 
#13
modulusman said:
I don't think i have ever heard a mic stand ring.:confused: Buy a graphic and learn how to use it. The fact that an amp is class D has nothing to do with loudness.
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There's a graph built into the Yamaha LS9 digital console, as well as parametrics on each output, but thanks for suggesting the painfully obvious without actually looking up "damping factor" like I said.

The room has all PRX mains and monitors, a total of 12 2-ohm drivers on class D amps, a damping factor of 50 each. There's a low ceiling and a fairly resonant floor, which don't help, but fact is that the speakers are actively reinforcing the environmental resonance (mic stands, floor, the speaker cabinets themselves, etc) because they just don't have a firm grip on the speaker's movement.

8 ohm speakers on professional class AB amps generally have a damping factor of 500, and it's not recommended that subwoofer systems have a damping factor of under 200. The PRX subwoofers are not only well below professional standards for damping factor, they use two 2-ohm voice coils per driver to get power from two class D amps, which is cheaper than one amp with twice the power. That's just pathetic.

In the room I'm speaking of, with the HPF on the mics set to 100, they feed back in the mains at 67Hz, the resonant frequency of the floor, and also somewhere between 100 and 180 depending on how the mic boom is set. Lazy techs set the HPF to 180, but then the vocals are pretty thin. To actually fix the feedback 67Hz has to be -18 on both the main and channel parametric EQ's, 63Hz and 80Hz have to be -9 or so on the main graph, and the second resonance has to be -18 on both the channel and main parametrics. There's been many types of mic stands on that stage, they all ring like crazy.

Granted you won't run into much trouble often if you're just using PRX monitors and proper mains, but NX25's are cheaper anyway. They're a little heavier sure, but not terribly so.

Oh yeah, the PRX600 series uses a DSP processor that introduces a noticeable latency. The PRX500 series processing is analog and has no such problem. For that and several other reasons I get the impression that the Harman Group just doesn't give a sh|t about real quality and instead focuses exclusively on posting favorable numbers as cheaply as possible to cash in on JBL's reputation.
 
#15
Except in extreme situations, damping factor is meaningless except to marketing dweebs.

Powered monitors are a PITA unless you spend some money on hybrid cables and put a small rack together to which the cables will all home run. And if you are gonna have a rack, why bother with powered boxes - unless they truly outperform the unpowered alternative.
 
#16
TimmyP said:
Except in extreme situations, damping factor is meaningless except to marketing dweebs.

Powered monitors are a PITA unless you spend some money on hybrid cables and put a small rack together to which the cables will all home run. And if you are gonna have a rack, why bother with powered boxes - unless they truly outperform the unpowered alternative.
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+1 +1 +1: trifecta!
 
#17
TimmyP said:
Except in extreme situations, damping factor is meaningless except to marketing dweebs.

Powered monitors are a PITA unless you spend some money on hybrid cables and put a small rack together to which the cables will all home run. And if you are gonna have a rack, why bother with powered boxes - unless they truly outperform the unpowered alternative.
Click to expand...

When you have a digital board with built in GEQs, no real need for a rack.
 
#18
KingRazor said:
Lazy techs set the HPF to 180? I set it as high as 300 sometimes and get plenty of fullness to the vocals...
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+1. I'm using a Presonus 1642 live, and the hpf has a 6db/octave slope, so you have to set it higher to get any kind of cutoff. Set at 300, it's only down 3db at 150, and 6db at 75.

I've used most of the monitors listed. I really believe that it's a matter of personal taste, and that a competent sound man can make any decent wedge sound good.

I'm looking a some new gear for my personal use, and I'll be going for powered cabs and monitors for several reasons. The amps and crossovers are designed for the drivers, so minimal tweaking is required. Also, they're modular. I can take just what's needed for a particular gig. That goes double for the amp rack. I don't have to shift the heavy beast!

That said, I'm currently running 5 monitor mixes from my board to Yamaha B series with 10's. They punch throught the stage babble quite nicely. QSC amps. Everyone gets his own mix, and everyone gets plenty of level, and I can notch out any crapola.

(I'm using Aux 6 to feed the subs - a whole other topic, but very effective at taking low end mud out of the main mix.)
 
#19
We use Yamahas for monitors, mains and subs. Works very well for what we do. I would strongly suggest buying the coated versions versus the carpet covered. Not sure what they use for their harder coating but it is damn tough and holds up extremely well. Just grab a brush and some simple green and they clean right up and still look new.
 

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