Fodera Club Part XII

[Tom7]

What strings do you use for an eadgc set? I know fodera makes a string set for Matt garrison. I'm considering this set of strings. Thx.

I'm still experimenting with strings, so I'll be no help to you there. Right now I've got DR (nickle) Sunbeams on EADG, and a random nickle C string left over from a 6 string pack I ended up putting on a 5 string bass. I like them, but I think I liked steels better so DR DDTs or Fatbeams next.

 

[steubig]

Also, in a serendipitous moment earlier today, about the time I agreed that AJ's tone could sometimes be strident,
Someone emailed me to let me know that my own Fodera sounded "weak" on my YouTube channel. He's gone from observing my tone , to describing it to flat out judging it. Well , there's my comeuppance for commenting on someones YouTube tone.

your blue isn't BLUE enough.

 

[Tom7]

Okay gang, you know that generally I am very much a "cosmic cheerleader" here -- trying to explore all points of view as reasonable but please, please, please let's not seriously discuss tone based on hearing AJ's bass and rig through a YouTube Clip. Do we really want to end up judging possibly the least compressed / altered bass signal chain on the planet based on what it sounds like from a questionable recording subjected to all kinds of crappy compression algorithms being listened to on computer speakers?

Seriously, it is all about signal chain. I COMPLETELY agree with tone being a highly personal matter, but even listening to AJ on a CD is somewhat sad as 16 bit resolution bears no resemblance whatsoever to a pure analog signal. Has anyone ever heard a digital recording of a violin that sounds good? When I go to see music live a well-played violin is one of the most beautiful things I have yet heard...listen to the same player on a CD (even through a high-end system) and I find that it sounds strident and almost unbearable.

I am definitely not tiptoeing around AJ...I know him very well, we respect one another and definitely agree to disagree from time to time. There's no question that AJ's clean, pure, almost audiophile sound may not be to everyone's liking (I am solidly in the camp that admires his tone both now and on the Career Girl -- different times, different goals), but the clip that I just looked at bears no resemblance whatsoever to his tone...

Hopefully you all will take this in the spirit in which it is intended...really please do not confuse listening to YouTube clips with what anything actually sounds like...

J

Yeah, we ALL agree that youtube recordings are substandard. In fact, that is such a given it doesn't merit mentioning every time we discuss a video. The problem is the Internet doesn't really give us a true fidelity option we can all refer to in a conversation such as this.

However, as I wrote earlier, my opinion is NOT based on the YT clip, but was set much earlier based on performance DVDs and on audio recordings that I have.

Unfortunately, I've never heard Anthony live and would very much like to. He's been a hero of mine since the 70s.

As for taking it in the spirit it was intended, I don't know what to tell you. If what you intended to tell me was that I should not judge this bass based on the recordings I've heard of it, because they don't reflect the bass's "pure analog tone," then you've lost me.

Add up all the hours AJ's music is sounding in someone's ears, and I'd be surprised if 1% of that time the listeners were enjoying it live. Practically speaking, most of us, most of the time are hearing AJ on a DVD, CD or digital download; it's just reality.

Given that 99%+ of the time we are forced to make do with digital recordings, it's reasonable to have formed opinions based on the only way we are able to hear the music.

I agree that a CD's quality doesn't do many instruments justice, particularly one designed from the outset to have sonic capabilities that exceed a CD's capacity to reproduce them, but at least those recordings are uniformly inadequate. If they fail to portray the analog splendor of AJ's tone, then they likewise hurt Victor's tone, and Marcus's tone, and Alain's tone as well.

I can't speak for everyone, but seriously, my opinion was NOT based on the YT clip; it was formed prior to hearing it. And my opinion, my personal take on AJ's tone in the higher register -- an opinion that in no way disparages or diminishes the Fodera brand -- is that AJ's tone is not for me. I'm just not drawn to it.

We all have our personal preferences and our right to express them.

Fortunately for us all though, Fodera is all about providing top quality, personalized, VARIETY so that I CAN find tones in Fodera instruments that appeal to me and draw me in.

By the way, I've heard violins that are strident and unbearable live. Ugh. Much respect to the players and luthiers that can make that instrument so beautiful. It's astounding how long it has been around, and how crucial it still is to music today, despite all its modern competition.

 

[cheapimitation]

About the Hybrid size... does anyone know the width of the body at the waist (narrowest part between the bouts)?

 

[cnltb]

if anthony likes his sound, that's really all that matters.

+1

What exactly is he after anyways?
Is there a declared aim or ideal that he follows?

 

[KoaFodera]

Jason hit the nail dead center on the head in his statement that the best representation of an artist is to see him or her live.

I have had the opportunity to see many of the Fodera Artists we chat about on Talkbass... Anthony Jackson, Richard Bona, Victor Wooten, Matt Garrison, Mike Pope, Lincoln Goines, etc. No Youtube clip will come close to the magic of seeing a live performance.

Let these artists inspire you to be a better bassist but remember to respect their individuality and the voice they have chosen. Variety will always be the spice of life.

 

[Tom7]

Jason hit the nail dead center on the head in his statement that the best representation of an artist is to see him or her live.

I have had the opportunity to see many of the Fodera Artists we chat about on Talkbass... Anthony Jackson, Richard Bona, Victor Wooten, Matt Garrison, Mike Pope, Lincoln Goines, etc. No Youtube clip will come close to the magic of seeing a live performance.

Let these artists inspire you to be a better bassist but remember to respect their individuality and the voice they have chosen. Variety will always be the spice of life.

I don't know why YouTube keeps coming up when I keep saying that is NOT what my opinion is based on.

I stab it with my steely knife, but I just can't kill the beast!

Jason is so active in this forum, and we are all so fond of Fodera that most of us are very careful not to say anything that might offend him, but seriously, there is nothing offensive about saying you prefer some tones, and don't care for other tones -- be they live or recorded.

Variety certainly is the spice of life, and as I wrote in my last post, variety is one of Fodera's strengths. Fodera's business model lets us all have whatever spice we prefer, and get it in a quality package. Fodera lets AJ's flavor differ from Victor's, and that is nothing but cool.

That said, the reality is that not all spices appeal to everyone, and some spices work in certain recipes better than others.

Just because I don't like cinnamon on my steak doesn't mean I don't love it in my eggnog. Likewise, while I love pepper on my steak, I might barf if you put it in my eggnog. Consequently, it is totally reasonable to like AJ's tone in some settings, and not like it as much in others.

The fact that I don't have a universal, gushing love for a particular spice in all situations doesn't mean I am in some way disrespecting it. To the contrary, respect is allowing everyone to have their own voice, including the voice that is saying, "That's not really for me."

 

[Tom7]

if anthony likes his sound, that's really all that matters.

+1.

 

[Bollenator]

Hey all,
Sorry to randomly interject here, but I have two questions:

1. Can I join the club with an NYC Empire?
2. What are some thoughts, if any, about refinishing my newly-acquired NYC? I love everything about it except the color, but I want to be careful not to make a mistake that will just cost me money and diminish the value. I almost feel like refinishing a Fodera is sacrilege, but I know I'd love it even more with a different color. Opinions?

Thanks!

 

[Just Thumpin']

I really, really hope that this is not the case. I am no different than anyone here...I am just a bass player fraught with all of the same human inconsistencies, biases and personal opinions as the next guy. Yes, my factual knowledge of things Fodera is larger in some areas than others due to being a partner here but I would honestly hope that everyone weighs in with their unvarnished opinion. Disagreeing with me will NEVER cause me to be offended. How many posts have I ended with Viva la Difference?

Regards,

J

Jason is so active in this forum, and we are all so fond of Fodera that most of us are very careful not to say anything that might offend him

 

[ian_s]

I was recently listening to Marcus' Night on Monte Carlo album. Does anyone know which fretless he's playing there? It sounds just amazing. I can't find a video of the show...

 

[Tom7]

Hey all,
Sorry to randomly interject here, but I have two questions:

1. Can I join the club with an NYC Empire?
2. What are some thoughts, if any, about refinishing my newly-acquired NYC? I love everything about it except the color, but I want to be careful not to make a mistake that will just cost me money and diminish the value. I almost feel like refinishing a Fodera is sacrilege, but I know I'd love it even more with a different color. Opinions?

Thanks!

I'm not sure who maintains this club, if anyone, but in my opinion if it's a Fodera, then you have a Fodera and can join the club.

 

[Tom7]

I really, really hope that this is not the case. I am no different than anyone here...I am just a bass player fraught with all of the same human inconsistencies, biases and personal opinions as the next guy. Yes, my factual knowledge of things Fodera is larger in some areas than others due to being a partner here but I would honestly hope that everyone weighs in with their unvarnished opinion. Disagreeing with me will NEVER cause me to be offended. How many posts have I ended with Viva la Difference?

Regards,

J

Jason, you are by far the best thing that has happened to the Fodera Club thread.

Not only is your "factual knowledge of things Fodera" far ahead of everyone else, but your time, enthusiasm and position within Fodera has literally energized and revived the thread.

If I've been away from talkbass for awhile and have to scan through posts to catch up, there is no scanning when it comes to reading a post authored by you or Mike Pope. No way, I might miss something very enlightening. (I don't scan over links to clips either; I love to hear you guys play).

I'm not saying YOU want everyone to ONLY be shiny, happy people here. You clearly and constantly encourage us to be "unvarnished" (excellent choice of words for a luthier by the way). I'm just saying that we are so happy that you participate here that we are usually more careful around you than we were before you became active in the forum.

Seriously, for a bassist by far the coolest thing about talkbass.com is to log on and find Jason has posted in the Fodera club, or George has posted in Club Fbass, or Roger in the Sadowsky club. That alone is talkbass's secret sauce, whether or not they know it.

Don't underestimate how cool that kind of access to our bass building heroes is to us players; that is really cool!

So a little extra politeness is a side effect of having luthiers here, so what? Generally speaking, any Internet conversation board could stand to use a bit more of that anyway.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled program.

 

[Just Thumpin']

Much appreciated!

In terms of the person above asking about being in the "Club," I don't even know if the person that started the original Fodera thread is even still active, but the thread has definitely evolved to be more of an ongoing discussion as opposed to a Club thing. That said, I would imagine that if there was ever a rule related to being in a "club," ANY Fodera would certainly qualify!

J

Jason, you are by far the best thing that has happened to the Fodera Club thread.

Not only is your "factual knowledge of things Fodera" far ahead of everyone else, but your time, enthusiasm and position within Fodera has literally energized and revived the thread.

If I've been away from talkbass for awhile and have to scan through posts to catch up, there is no scanning when it comes to reading a post authored by you or Mike Pope. No way, I might miss something very enlightening. (I don't scan over links to clips either; I love to hear you guys play).

I'm not saying YOU want everyone to ONLY be shiny, happy people here. You clearly and constantly encourage us to be "unvarnished" (excellent choice of words for a luthier by the way). I'm just saying that we are so happy that you participate here that we are usually more careful around you than we were before you became active in the forum.

Seriously, for a bassist by far the coolest thing about talkbass.com is to log on and find Jason has posted in the Fodera club, or George has posted in Club Fbass, or Roger in the Sadowsky club. That alone is talkbass's secret sauce, whether or not they know it.

Don't underestimate how cool that kind of access to our bass building heroes is to us players; that is really cool!

So a little extra politeness is a side effect of having luthiers here, so what? Generally speaking, any Internet conversation board could stand to use a bit more of that anyway.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled program.

 

[steubig]

Hey all,
Sorry to randomly interject here, but I have two questions:
[*]Can I join the club with an NYC Empire?
[*]What are some thoughts, if any, about refinishing my newly-acquired NYC? I love everything about it except the color, but I want to be careful not to make a mistake that will just cost me money and diminish the value. I almost feel like refinishing a Fodera is sacrilege, but I know I'd love it even more with a different color. Opinions?
Thanks!

as far as i know, there have been people here who have been prospective owners or past owners or people who are just exploring.

no numbers, no litmus test. subscribe, you're in; unsubscribe, you're out.

or so i think.

i wouldn't refinish if you're worried about resale. if you're not, go for it. BUT. . . the technology of fodera custom finishes is part of what makes something a fodera. i don't know if the same tech is used for the nyc stuff or not.

 

[Just Thumpin']

If you did go the route of refinishing, you would definitely want to get a similar, very thin material like the urethane lacquer that we used to use (on the NYC's) or our current acrylic lacquer. They are very thin and allow the instrument to "breathe" and it is an integral part of the overall tone...

J

as far as i know, there have been people here who have been prospective owners or past owners or people who are just exploring.

no numbers, no litmus test. subscribe, you're in; unsubscribe, you're out.

or so i think.

i wouldn't refinish if you're worried about resale. if you're not, go for it. BUT. . . the technology of fodera custom finishes is part of what makes something a fodera. i don't know if the same tech is used for the nyc stuff or not.

 

[fivestringdan]

no numbers, no litmus test. subscribe, you're in; unsubscribe, you're out.

or so i think.

Hello group. My name is Dan and I am a Fodera thread addict. An addict who doesn't own a Fodera!!!

 

[metallutca]

Hey all,
Sorry to randomly interject here, but I have two questions:
[*]Can I join the club with an NYC Empire?
[*]What are some thoughts, if any, about refinishing my newly-acquired NYC? I love everything about it except the color, but I want to be careful not to make a mistake that will just cost me money and diminish the value. I almost feel like refinishing a Fodera is sacrilege, but I know I'd love it even more with a different color. Opinions?
Thanks!

How about sending to Fodera themselves for refinishing?

 

[nostatic]

I almost feel like refinishing a Fodera is sacrilege

You should talk to steubig

 

[steubig]

Jason hit the nail dead center on the head in his statement that the best representation of an artist is to see him or her live.

I have had the opportunity to see many of the Fodera Artists we chat about on Talkbass... Anthony Jackson, Richard Bona, Victor Wooten, Matt Garrison, Mike Pope, Lincoln Goines, etc. No Youtube clip will come close to the magic of seeing a live performance.

Let these artists inspire you to be a better bassist but remember to respect their individuality and the voice they have chosen. Variety will always be the spice of life.

while i agree with your last paragraph, i just don't think you can make generalizations about someone's sound being better live than on recordings. case in point, a student of mine said he saw a band recently where the confluence of the room and a bad soundman destroyed the whole gig. the bass player sounds great on recordings.

hell, i've played gigs where one person couldn't hear me, one said i was too loud at the back of the room and a person who was up front said it was perfect, if a little low.

now if you want to talk about the "magic" of performance, that strikes me as being a different thing—and something that very often *cannot* be reproduced in a recording.

but in terms of pure "sound," i think there are some may variables that it's almost absurd to think anything can be absolute. live there are standing waves in the room, resonant frequencies on stage, guitarists or drummers who play too loud or have their stuff tuned so it eats what you do; on recordings you have A-D convertors, amplifier components, speakers, room characteristics, etc.