Fodera Club Part XII

[steubig]

My only real point of reference (I avoid much of the "f" word - the mere mention of the word sends guitarists and drummers into often bad places ) is seeing AJ live last month with Hiromi. It was awe-inspiring.

ya know, i was mindful of that as i have a friend who saw them the next night or so and really disliked the sound.

this is why i think it's hard to talk about--it *is* so personal.

for what it's worth, some stuff i heard on youtube and so forth wasn't for me. but . . . it *is* youtube and there are so many variables (amplification, micing, house sound, etc.) that go into that before you even get into personal likes and dislikes.

and i like dirtier sounds while most people like clean high-hi stuff . . .

 

[TapyTap]

The youtube clip that was shared illustrates it for me. Right here you hear strident, scratchy high notes, then Anthony runs down to an A played on the E string and holds it, and when it is low, it sounds oh so good. The contrast is quite remarkable.

While this probably has nothing to do with what you are perceiving as strident and scratchy, do you think his "chorus" effect might have something to do with the timbre you are pointing out here?

It's funny...I love his high register playing on this bass, but I don't care for the timbre of his open B-string. I bet a simple increase in string gauge (on the B) would change my mind. Then again, I love articulation, clarity, and transparency. In fact, I would probably move the pickup closer to the bridge than Mr. Jackson presently has his. Crazy, I know.

 

[nostatic]

I'm personally way more on the warm/non-hi-fi tone side of things. But for me the combination of Hiromi's piano, Simon Phillips drum tone (which is another one that people either seem to love or hate), and AJs amazing sonic range - well, it just worked. It was interesting because I wasn't so sure about the lineup. I originally liked the tighter drum sound/work of Valihora. But once I saw this trio live I got it.

Listen to the album (Voice). Good representation of what the sound is intended to be.

 

[nostatic]

While this probably has nothing to do with what you are perceiving as strident and scratchy, do you think his "chorus" effect might have something to do with the timbre you are pointing out here?

The combination of chorus and a pick will do that. And in fact after seeing AJ I started using my chorus more with fretted and also have been using a pick on some tunes. Sometimes "scratchy" is just what an itch needs

 

[TapyTap]

I'm personally way more on the warm/non-hi-fi tone side of things. But for me the combination of Hiromi's piano, Simon Phillips drum tone (which is another one that people either seem to love or hate), and AJs amazing sonic range - well, it just worked. It was interesting because I wasn't so sure about the lineup. I originally liked the tighter drum sound/work of Valihora. But once I saw this trio live I got it.

Listen to the album (Voice). Good representation of what the sound is intended to be.

The warm side of the scale definitely has its place. I also agree that the Hiromi/Phillips/Jackson combination really works.

 

[Kwesi]

I'm personally way more on the warm/non-hi-fi tone side of things. But for me the combination of Hiromi's piano, Simon Phillips drum tone (which is another one that people either seem to love or hate), and AJs amazing sonic range - well, it just worked. It was interesting because I wasn't so sure about the lineup. I originally liked the tighter drum sound/work of Valihora. But once I saw this trio live I got it.

Listen to the album (Voice). Good representation of what the sound is intended to be.

Of course, a matter of taste but I was really disappointed by her work with sans Tony Grey and Martin Valihora. Hiromi herself, always sounds great though.

 

[Blue Blood]

I haven't listened to the Hiromi/Jackson CD but own/love her other CD's. However, I hear no emotion in Tony Grey's playing. He's just a "finger wiggler" to me. Hiromi on the other hand can bring tears to my eyes with her playing. That may be the problem: Tony in direct comparison to such a soulful player as Hiromi just seems soul-less.

 

[theNoseBleedKid]

I am seeing the voice trio live in about a month.

Hiromi's first visit to Australia.

Been waiting 7 years for this.

 

[Kwesi]

I haven't listened to the Hiromi/Jackson CD but own/love her other CD's. However, I hear no emotion in Tony Grey's playing. He's just a "finger wiggler" to me. Hiromi on the other hand can bring tears to my eyes with her playing. That may be the problem: Tony in direct comparison to such a soulful player as Hiromi just seems soul-less.

Tony is the exact opposite of a soul-less player in my book.

 

[pnchad]

not to interrupt the side conversation but I had a quick fodera question I probably already know the answer to:

looking at the 2012 price list there is no option for an ebony FB - how long has that been the case and I assume it's due to endangered species???

but, I would have thought folks had substantial stock especially in the small dims need for a board - sorry if I'm 5 years late

 

[Robin Ruscio]

not to interrupt the side conversation but I had a quick fodera question I probably already know the answer to:

looking at the 2012 price list there is no option for an ebony FB - how long has that been the case and I assume it's due to endangered species???

but, I would have thought folks had substantial stock especially in the small dims need for a board - sorry if I'm 5 years late

I think theres no price because it's not an upgrade. Always available as well; Part of the basic price. Hope that makes you happy!

 

[anonymous111813]

I'm personally way more on the warm/non-hi-fi tone side of things. But for me the combination of Hiromi's piano, Simon Phillips drum tone (which is another one that people either seem to love or hate), and AJs amazing sonic range - well, it just worked. It was interesting because I wasn't so sure about the lineup. I originally liked the tighter drum sound/work of Valihora. But once I saw this trio live I got it.

Listen to the album (Voice). Good representation of what the sound is intended to be.

I agree with you here. "Voice" is the best record of Hiromi´s talent by far. Her compositions are complex but thought through, the sound is much more natural than on her previous recordings. Phillips and AJ are a perfect fit for this new style: The drum adds lots of punch and fills while AJ mostly lays down very solid grooves.

 

[Tom7]

I'm glad you said it and not me, but that's how I always felt as well and wondered if I was alone. I find that issue with 6's in general though, which is why I quit playing them. Aj's sounds killer low and is not my thing high.

Btw, I'm sure you'll be getting your letter of dismissal from club Fodera any day.

Laughing! Yeah, I'm packing up my desk already.

Interestingly, another DVD purchase had an opposite affect. I got Victor Wooten's Groove Workshop DVDs and when I heard Anthony Wellington's single coil Emperor 5, ash body, maple fingerboard, 70s positions... wow.

There are 4 Foderas in that room, and Wellington's stood far above them all in my opinion. I immediately set out after that bass based on tone lust alone.


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That was an instance where I was inspired in a big way by a Fodera bass player's tone as well as his playing.

By the way, she's strung EADGC, and its C is very nice all the way up the fingerboard.

 

[Tom7]

While this probably has nothing to do with what you are perceiving as strident and scratchy, do you think his "chorus" effect might have something to do with the timbre you are pointing out here?

It's funny...I love his high register playing on this bass, but I don't care for the timbre of his open B-string. I bet a simple increase in string gauge (on the B) would change my mind. Then again, I love articulation, clarity, and transparency. In fact, I would probably move the pickup closer to the bridge than Mr. Jackson presently has his. Crazy, I know.

That's a fair question and a good point, but no, I don't THINK that is affecting my opinion. I've had that opinion long before I'd seen this clip. I just used that moment in the clip to illustrate it here in the forum.

 

[Tom7]

The combination of chorus and a pick will do that. And in fact after seeing AJ I started using my chorus more with fretted and also have been using a pick on some tunes. Sometimes "scratchy" is just what an itch needs

Don't put too much into that word "scratchy." STRIDENT is how I want to describe it every time, but I didn't want to overuse the word so I used others.

Also, Anthony isn't using a pick in that clip, so I'm pretty sure in that instance at least, it's not the pick.

But he certainly is working an effects foot pedal in the video.

When I was a kid in the 70s I listened to Chic Corea a LOT, and Anthony Jackson played on Corea's Leprechaun album. I was also into Al Di Meola, so I've been listening to AJ's chorus and pick style for quite awhile.

Whether the shrillness comes from AJ's bass, his string choices or his effects pedal, it certainly comes from his choices for his tone, so it's safe to say that although I've loved AJ for decades, his personal preferences aren't a 100% match with mine.

 

[Tom7]

... I find that issue with 6's in general though, which is why I quit playing them. Aj's sounds killer low and is not my thing high.

By the way, in my limited experience I've found that there are very many 6 string basses that are definitely not my thing, so I can see why you feel that way.

Players tend to like extended scale basses because they tighten the B string, however the longer scale length doesn't just tighten one string; in reality they tighten all the strings. I generally like that on the BEADG strings, but not so much for a C string.

Again, this is a major generality and not true in all cases, but extending the length of a C string makes it sound tinny and less musical to me.

I wonder if that is why you don't see many extended length guitars. They tend to be a good deal shorter than basses.

Again, I'm no luthier or expert, I only know what I've experienced, heard and like.

 

[Highpost]

Laughing! Yeah, I'm packing up my desk already.

Interestingly, another DVD purchase had an opposite affect. I got Victor Wooten's Groove Workshop DVDs and when I heard Anthony Wellington's single coil Emperor 5, ash body, maple fingerboard, 70s positions... wow.

There are 4 Foderas in that room, and Wellington's stood far above them all in my opinion. I immediately set out after that bass based on tone lust alone.

That was an instance where I was inspired in a big way by a Fodera bass player's tone as well as his playing.

By the way, she's strung EADGC, and its C is very nice all the way up the fingerboard.

What strings do you use for an eadgc set? I know fodera makes a string set for Matt garrison. I'm considering this set of strings. Thx.

 

[Just Thumpin']

Wow, are you certain that that you saw him using his rig? Sometimes when he travels he does not take his whole rig with him. Because when I have heard him with his full rig I found his tone to be simply awe inspiring...not shrill or grungy at all. Clean, deep, articulate, highly-nuanced, engaging, full-range...stuff like that...

J

Do people actually like Anthony's tone live, though? I've seen him three (four?) times, and it's always pretty unpleasant. Really shrill and grungy.

I'm not saying it's the bass- I've played a presentation in Japan that was great.

 

[Just Thumpin']

1 13/16 for you it is! We will also be using a slightly thinner profile than "normal."

Cheers,

J

Thanks for the info Jason. I heard you're gonna take mine touch past that as I requested to 1 13/16". I know it is going to perfect for me by being a little tighter but not much.

 

[Angus]

Wow, I cannot imagine that you saw him using his rig because when I have heard him with his full rig I found his tone to be simply awe inspiring...not shrill or grungy at all. Clean, deep, articulate, highly-nuanced, engaging...stuff like that...

J

Could well be. Admittedly I have no idea if it was his normal rig- I don't remember noting the rest of his signal chain any of the times. I think the first was in the early 2000s with with Michel Camilo. Could've been the venues, too. It was enough times, though, that one of the times had to have been with his ideal rig.

Who knows!