Fodera Club Part XVIII

[Baird6869]

Finally got around to cleaning and restringing my 6 week old E5S for the first time last night. A few Sierra Nevadas later, the bass was perfect.

Man, are these easy basses to work on and set up!

Also, my bass had a slightly bent stem on the mids control, so it had to be replaced. I got a new one from Joey last week and installed it myself in literally 2 minutes. No solder, it just snaps in. Beautiful!

I also gave it a good clean, setup and a set of Fodera stainless .040-.120 light strings.

Playing a properly set up Fodera strung with a new set of your favorite strings is a near religious experience!

6 weeks in and I STILL can't walk past my Fodera without picking it up to play it for a quick minute.

 

[Just Thumpin']

Kimi was darn near perfect and the boys in red had a great day too. Cannot complain about 1 and 4!!

J

Jason,

What did you think of that race on Sunday? Sorry for the off topic post, but I know Jason is an F1 fan too.

Me, I was very pleased! Even more pleased Beiber (Vettel) was not on the top step after the race.

 

[Just Thumpin']

I love it. Early days yet as I have only gigged with it twice, but thus far I am diggin' it enough that she's my new avatar...

J

Hey Jason- Nice bass man! How did it turn out for you with that wood combo?

 

[Just Thumpin']

All done by ear...sorry!! It differs on every bass. Even the "Standards."

J

I was just messing around with my setup last weekend.
I'm curious what you're starting point for pickup height for DC is at the shop. Do you measure with the last fret (24 in my case) down?

 

[polymad]

All done by ear...sorry!! It differs on every bass. Even the "Standards."

J

Yep! Best way to adjust pup distance!

 

[jim777]

6 weeks in and I STILL can't walk past my Fodera without picking it up to play it for a quick minute.

That's great to hear, congrats again!

 

[Robin Ruscio]

All done by ear...sorry!! It differs on every bass. Even the "Standards."

J

Ok, what are you listening for then?

 

[Just Thumpin']

It's next to impossible to describe that in words. There is a balance that we look for in each instrument where it just sounds "right." I definitely am not trying to be cryptic, but we look for the heights where the bass just sounds the best. In terms of heights between the two PUPs, the bridge PUP is almost always closer to the strings than the Neck PUP due to the decreased amplitude of the strings' vibrations at the bridge compared to near the neck.

We also generally set up the PUP's so that the bridge PUP sounds a little louder than the neck PUP -- this is to provide some "cut" to the overall tone.

Again, this stuff seems highly subjective, but when Joey and I do it by ear, both of us end up setting instruments up virtually identically...

J

Ok, what are you listening for then?

 

[phishaholik]

P.S. I know that this is going to sound silly, but make certain that your tuning machines and bridge are properly tightened (i.e. that the nuts on all of the tuning machines and the screws for the bridge are tight). Sometimes when these get loose the tone of an instrument loses resonance and nuance. Sadly, greater than 50% of the instruments coming into the shop for routine service have this problem. Part of regular maintenance on a Fodera involves ensuring that these are tight at LEAST once every six months or so...

Other things to check is that the PUP heights are set correctly (close enough, but not too close) to the strings and that you are using great strings that are fairly new.

We just had a string manufacturer send us samples of (very expensive) strings to try and after putting them on an E5S and M4S and allowing some people in the shop to play them (as did Joey and I), we were all AMAZED at how bad our instruments sounded. Dull, nasal, lifeless. If I had purchased one of these instruments with these strings on them I would have had a MASSIVE case of buyer's remorse.

Switching back to our strings and the instruments just came alive...

I'm actually having similar trouble with my bass. It's always sounded kind of overly compressed, like it has flats on it when the strings are brand new. I tried replacing the pickups, passives instead of EMGs, which helped a good bit, but it still has that kind of dull tone no matter what I do. It's the worst on the E string. I tried raising and lowering the pickups as well as the action. No matter what I do it sounds a bit choked. There's a good bit of treble roll off when the vtc is all the way open. My bass has a mahogany body, maple top and neck, and an Indian rosewood fretboard. My Fender P with TI flats has more treble than the Fodera with nickels.

I'm thinking about just sending it in to have it gone over and pleked, but is there anything else I can do before I do send it in? It's driving me a bit crazy and I've been messing with it endlessly.


I tried calling the shop, but it's after hours. Any help would be appreciated.

Edit: I'm using medium light Fodera nickels.


Thanks!


Michael

 

[chris.gotfunk]

Hey man. It almost sounds like your trim pot inside the cavity is too high... Just a guess. IIRC, Mike Pope once said that he likes to set the gain on the trim pot at a level that when the tone controls are at center detent, you can switch between active and passive and barely hear a difference. That's my only idea.
**edit** also check your batteries aren't old or you aren't maxing out the eq section... It could also be that your trim pot inside is too low and by having to boost all of your eq, you are getting that compressed tone.

I'm actually having similar trouble with my bass. It's always sounded kind of overly compressed, like it has flats on it when the strings are brand new. I tried replacing the pickups, passives instead of EMGs, which helped a good bit, but it still has that kind of dull tone no matter what I do. It's the worst on the E string. I tried raising and lowering the pickups as well as the action. No matter what I do it sounds a bit choked. There's a good bit of treble roll off when the vtc is all the way open. My bass has a mahogany body, maple top and neck, and an Indian rosewood fretboard. My Fender P with TI flats has more treble than the Fodera with nickels.

I'm thinking about just sending it in to have it gone over and pleked, but is there anything else I can do before I do send it in? It's driving me a bit crazy and I've been messing with it endlessly.


I tried calling the shop, but it's after hours. Any help would be appreciated.

Edit: I'm using medium light Fodera nickels.


Thanks!


Michael

 

[phishaholik]

Hey man. It almost sounds like your trim pot inside the cavity is too high... Just a guess. IIRC, Mike Pope once said that he likes to set the gain on the trim pot at a level that when the tone controls are at center detent, you can switch between active and passive and barely hear a difference. That's my only idea.
**edit** also check your batteries aren't old or you aren't maxing out the eq section... It could also be that your trim pot inside is too low and by having to boost all of your eq, you are getting that compressed tone.

Thanks Chris, I really appreciate it!

I do have the trim pot pretty high. I lost some gain when I switched from EMGs to passives and tried to compensate by boosting the gain on the preamp. However, I had the exact same problem with EMGs and it was actually worse.

I barely boost the EQ at all. I pretty much just boost either low or high mid a touch as needed. It's a Pope Flexcore by the way.

I'm going to replace the batteries. They checked good on a tester, but that's not always accurate.


Thanks again!


Michael


Edit: I forgot to say, the passive pickups have less output when I bypass the preamp than my other basses too. I have a D. Allen P pickup and a Lindy Fralin 5% overwound lateral humbucker at the bridge. In passive mode it has less output than my Fender P and my ESP Vintage 4. The Vintage 4 has hot pickups though.

 

[chris.gotfunk]

No prob. I didn't pickup (pardon the pun) that you changed pickups. Interesting scenario. After hearing that, I may be completely wrong. I hope you can get it resolved. Let us know what the final fix actually is. I'm curious.

PS- Have you checked the Flexcore diagrams for wiring to a passive pickup? I don't know if that would make a difference or not, but it might. Almost sounds like a phasing issue...

Thanks Chris, I really appreciate it!

I do have the trim pot pretty high. I lost some gain when I switched from EMGs to passives and tried to compensate by boosting the gain on the preamp. However, I had the exact same problem with EMGs and it was actually worse.

I barely boost the EQ at all. I pretty much just boost either low or high mid a touch as needed. It's a Pope Flexcore by the way.

I'm going to replace the batteries. They checked good on a tester, but that's not always accurate.


Thanks again!


Michael


Edit: I forgot to say, the passive pickups have less output when I bypass the preamp than my other basses too. I have a D. Allen P pickup and a Lindy Fralin 5% overwound lateral humbucker at the bridge. In passive mode it has less output than my Fender P and my ESP Vintage 4. The Vintage 4 has hot pickups though.

 

[phishaholik]

No prob. I didn't pickup (pardon the pun) that you changed pickups. Interesting scenario. After hearing that, I may be completely wrong. I hope you can get it resolved. Let us know what the final fix actually is. I'm curious.

PS- Have you checked the Flexcore diagrams for wiring to a passive pickup? I don't know if that would make a difference or not, but it might. Almost sounds like a phasing issue...

Yes, everything has been done to switch to passives except I haven't shielded the pickup cavities yet, resulting in some buzzing when my hands are off the strings.

I keep changing things and it gets better, but I haven't reached great yet. I pulled the original two band Pope preamp out and put the Flexcore in and it was much better. I switched out the pickups and it was better yet. I have a bunch of really good useable tones, but none are great. I know the bass is capable of more than I'm getting.

Thanks again! It really helps to bounce ideas back and forth.


Michael

 

[Mitchthebassplayer]

That's interesting....I had a very similar experience with my Imperial that came with EMG shaped duncans. Very compressed sounding and the signal seemed very weak. I couldn't even use it in passive mode on a gig. Took it to the shop and it sounded ok, but on the gig it just wouldn't cut through and sounded very "dull". I decided to have my bass routed for the standard size Fodera/Duncans and had wooden covers made with the polepieces exposed. It's like a whole new bass, the sound has opened up completely and I use it in passive mode all the time. Now it sounds like a bass! Maybe there's some kind of wiring mishap going on when switching from EMGs to passive pups?

 

[phishaholik]

That's interesting....I had a very similar experience with my Imperial that came with EMG shaped duncans. Very compressed sounding and the signal seemed very weak. I couldn't even use it in passive mode on a gig. Took it to the shop and it sounded ok, but on the gig it just wouldn't cut through and sounded very "dull". I decided to have my bass routed for the standard size Fodera/Duncans and had wooden covers made with the polepieces exposed. It's like a whole new bass, the sound has opened up completely and I use it in passive mode all the time. Now it sounds like a bass! Maybe there's some kind of wiring mishap going on when switching from EMGs to passive pups?

Honestly, it's very possible. I thought the Flexcore was idiot proof, but I'm definitely challenging that notion.

Opening the tone up is exactly what I'm trying to do. My other P's and PJ's are super punchy and have a lot of overtones and that's what I'm trying to go for. I want that tone, but with the versatility of the Pope preamp.

The ground wire that was installed is an unshielded braided wire that runs under the batteries. Maybe that's an issue? I read in another post that batteries touching the shielding is a no no with the Pope preamp. I also mixed two brands of pickups and I had to wire the Fralin backwards because they aren't wound in the same direction, so that also complicates things.


Michael

 

[chris.gotfunk]

I also mixed two brands of pickups and I had to wire the Fralin backwards because they aren't wound in the same direction, so that also complicates things.


Michael

Interesting... maybe an impedence and the pickups are running out of phase issue?

 

[nostatic]

fwiw I think mahogany body with rosewood fingerboard is going to have a tough time sounding really "live". Definitely in the warm/vintage side of things.

I certainly would talk to the guys at the shop and try some various things.

 

[phishaholik]

Interesting... maybe an impedence and the pickups are running out of phase issue?

The pickups are out of phase, that's why I had to wire the bridge backwards. I don't know if this could cause my problems. I've been wanting to switch the D.Allen out for a Fralin P pickup to see if that clears things up, but at the same time I don't want to buy another expensive pickup if that's not the problem. Both pickups are wound to about the same value, around 10.5k to 11k, which is why I picked these pickups to go together. Of course I know nothing about electronics, so take any of my "knowledge" with a grain of salt.

I'm also wondering why the output is lower when in passive mode than my other passive basses.

fwiw I think mahogany body with rosewood fingerboard is going to have a tough time sounding really "live". Definitely in the warm/vintage side of things.

I certainly would talk to the guys at the shop and try some various things.

I like warm and vintage, but this isn't the same. All my other basses are alder and rosewood and sound much more open than my Fodera.

I'm going to call the shop and see if I can talk to someone. I've had a bit of a hard time getting someone with technical expertise on the phone in past. I know they're really busy.


Thanks guys!


Michael

 

[Angus]

fwiw I think mahogany body with rosewood fingerboard is going to have a tough time sounding really "live". Definitely in the warm/vintage side of things.

...like Victor Wooten's old Fodera?

I think that's probably much too general of a statement.

 

[phishaholik]

...like Victor Wooten's old Fodera?

I think that's probably much too general of a statement.

Almost exactly like Wooten's old Fodera, minus the Haz Lab and it's a bolt on instead of a set neck.

Michael