Fodera Club Part XVIII

[Mitchthebassplayer]

...like Victor Wooten's old Fodera?

I think that's probably much too general of a statement.

+1

 

[nostatic]

...like Victor Wooten's old Fodera?

I think that's probably much too general of a statement.

If you crank the snot out of the treble you'll get some top end

If you took two Monarchs and one was mahogany/rw and the other was ash or walnut and ebony, in general you'd get a lot more top end bite from the latter. It least comparing basses I've heard.

 

[metalstorm]

I bet it will be subtle.

 

[phishaholik]

If you crank the snot out of the treble you'll get some top end

If you took two Monarchs and one was mahogany/rw and the other was ash or walnut and ebony, in general you'd get a lot more top end bite from the latter. It least comparing basses I've heard.

I definitely agree that there's a difference with what woods are used, but this isn't the difference I'm experiencing. My alder/rosewood P-bass with flats has more top end than my Fodera. That doesn't sound right to me.

Does anyone feel the Pope Flexcore is a dark preamp? I'm guessing it's probably not true bypass in passive mode, so maybe this is my issue. I don't remember my YYS sounding dark, but it did have an ebony board.


Michael

 

[nostatic]

I bet it will be subtle.

fwiw I had walnut/ebony and alder/rw 4-string monarchs in the house at the same time with identical electronics. They sounded very different to my ear.

 

[steubig]

one observation, one question.

observation: i heard the basses todd's talking about. very different. also, i have ebony fb over mahogany and ebony fb over walnut and there's a fairly large different to my ear.

question: what does the bass sound like acoustically in the air? versus the fender? you bought this used? what's the truss rod like?

 

[Belka]

The pickups are out of phase, that's why I had to wire the bridge backwards. I don't know if this could cause my problems. I've been wanting to switch the D.Allen out for a Fralin P pickup to see if that clears things up, but at the same time I don't want to buy another expensive pickup if that's not the problem. Both pickups are wound to about the same value, around 10.5k to 11k, which is why I picked these pickups to go together. Of course I know nothing about electronics, so take any of my "knowledge" with a grain of salt.

I'm also wondering why the output is lower when in passive mode than my other passive basses.

I would normally ask about the pots in the preamp as I know that EMGs like 25 ohm pots whereas passive pickups prefer 250/500 ohms, but I'm guessing that that's not the issue here as the Pope preamp seems to be a standard one which works with active and passive preamps equally well. Does it have some kind of buffer in place for use with active pickups which you should have removed? Sorry if I'm stating the obvious.

Maybe the pickups are just a bad match for the bass. I know nothing about D Allen pickups although I know that Fralins have a great reputation. Although, Fralin's do seem very often to be used to make a very ordinary bass (Squier, mim Fender) sound great, and less often to complement a very expensive guitar like a Fodera. Also, you mentioned that the bridge pickup is overwound. To my understanding over winding a pickup give more output but sucks highs and lows out of the equation, emphasizing the mids.

If you find that there is no issue with the wiring and preamp and decide to experiment with new pickups you could try some Duncan's in there. An Antiquity II precision pickup ( i understand the Fodera/Duncan p and j pickups are similar to the Antiquity) and a split coil Duncan jazz pickup for the bridge might be a better match - you could even try an Antiquity II j in the bridge position but I don't know if that's a good idea, I heard pj basses should have a split coil in the jazz position for output/ 60 cycle hum reasons.

Here you go. P bass: http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/bass/pbass/passive/

J bass:
http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/bass/pickups-for-jaz/

The classic stack at the bottom of the page seems to be the one to go for.

Or you could try:
http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/bass/pickups-for-jaz/active/

The lightning rods. There's no picture of the pj set but they are available. Although active, the lightning rods sound nothing like EMGs. Vintage voiced but very dynamic and open sounding.

Apologies if you don't like Duncans and my post has wasted your time.

 

[phishaholik]

The pickups are out of phase, that's why I had to wire the bridge backwards. I don't know if this could cause my problems. I've been wanting to switch the D.Allen out for a Fralin P pickup to see if that clears things up, but at the same time I don't want to buy another expensive pickup if that's not the problem. Both pickups are wound to about the same value, around 10.5k to 11k, which is why I picked these pickups to go together. Of course I know nothing about electronics, so take any of my "knowledge" with a grain of salt.

I'm also wondering why the output is lower when in passive mode than my other passive basses.

I would normally ask about the pots in the preamp as I know that EMGs like 25 ohm pots whereas passive pickups prefer 250/500 ohms, but I'm guessing that that's not the issue here as the Pope preamp seems to be a standard one which works with active and passive preamps equally well. Does it have some kind of buffer in place for use with active pickups which you should have removed? Sorry if I'm stating the obvious.

Maybe the pickups are just a bad match for the bass. I know nothing about D Allen pickups although I know that Fralins have a great reputation. Although, Fralin's do seem very often to be used to make a very ordinary bass (Squier, mim Fender) sound great, and less often to complement a very expensive guitar like a Fodera. Also, you mentioned that the bridge pickup is overwound. To my understanding over winding a pickup give more output but sucks highs and lows out of the equation, emphasizing the mids.

If you find that there is no issue with the wiring and preamp and decide to experiment with new pickups you could try some Duncan's in there. An Antiquity II precision pickup ( i understand the Fodera/Duncan p and j pickups are similar to the Antiquity) and a split coil Duncan jazz pickup for the bridge might be a better match - you could even try an Antiquity II j in the bridge position but I don't know if that's a good idea, I heard pj basses should have a split coil in the jazz position for output/ 60 cycle hum reasons.

Here you go. P bass: http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/bass/pbass/passive/

J bass:
http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/bass/pickups-for-jaz/

The classic stack at the bottom of the page seems to be the one to go for.

Or you could try:
http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/bass/pickups-for-jaz/active/

The lightning rods. There's no picture of the pj set but they are available. Although active, the lightning rods sound nothing like EMGs. Vintage voiced but very dynamic and open sounding.

Apologies if you don't like Duncans and my post has wasted your time.

I'm on my phone now, so I can't multiquote. The bass was very well used when I got it. It sounds much more open when played acoustically. The fender is a different animal and a very special bass. It's a one a million bass that blows every other P I've played out if the water tonally, including the Alleva Copolla that I owned. I'm not trying to directly compare the two, just a general idea. The truss rod turns easily and the neck is straight as an arrow.


There is a setting in the preamp that has to be changed and its been switched over. I agree there is a very real possibility that the pickups just aren't a good match with each other or possibly the bass. I actually do like Duncan's and I have a set in the before mentioned ESP Vintage 4. I actually just realized I have a Lightnin Rod P pickup. I thought it was a 1/4 pounder till I tried to sell it. I was planning on putting that in this weekend with the EMG bridge pickup to complete the set, just to try it out.

I forgot to mention before, almost all the issues are with the P pickup. The Fralin sounds great on its own. The p pickup is muddy and indistinct when compared to other Ps I've played.



Thanks for the help!


Michael

 

[steubig]

ah, so the p is possibly (probably) the issue. seems to me that's the first thing to change.

my other suggestion would've been to go completely straight the the jack with each pickup to see what's what—ya know pickup not happening, pickup/preamp a bad match. that sort of thing.

 

[Belka]

Glad you appreciated the post. One thing I should mention with regards to your experiment: like I said earlier, EMGs like 25ohm pots, but the lightning rods like 100 ohm pots. Not sure how to get around that issue. Good luck anyhow. Will be interested to see how the bass ends up.

 

[Just Thumpin']

I think that your best bet is to send it in for a going over...

Regards,

Jason

I'm actually having similar trouble with my bass. It's always sounded kind of overly compressed, like it has flats on it when the strings are brand new. I tried replacing the pickups, passives instead of EMGs, which helped a good bit, but it still has that kind of dull tone no matter what I do. It's the worst on the E string. I tried raising and lowering the pickups as well as the action. No matter what I do it sounds a bit choked. There's a good bit of treble roll off when the vtc is all the way open. My bass has a mahogany body, maple top and neck, and an Indian rosewood fretboard. My Fender P with TI flats has more treble than the Fodera with nickels.

I'm thinking about just sending it in to have it gone over and pleked, but is there anything else I can do before I do send it in? It's driving me a bit crazy and I've been messing with it endlessly.


I tried calling the shop, but it's after hours. Any help would be appreciated.

Edit: I'm using medium light Fodera nickels.


Thanks!


Michael

 

[Just Thumpin']

Michael --

In fairness, you have decided to modify your Fodera on your own. Several times in other threads I tried to point out that perhaps it was a bit more complicated and that you should send it to us so that we could make sure that it gets done right. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. There could be any number of things wrong...from ground loop issues, to incompatible pickups, to improperly wired pickups, to a preamp that is set up for the wrong kind of pickups.

Again, please send us the bass and let us go over it in person. This is not something that we can (or should) talk through over the phone. If the engine on your car is not working, do you want a mechanic to talk you through it?

Now, in terms of getting someone on the phone, I am not sure when you called in the past, but our phone hours are from 9:00 am until 3:00 pm and if you ever have trouble getting through you may call my cell phone at 201-362-6910. But in fairness, please do not call just to ask us to trouble shoot a DIY job...is that really fair to either the shop, you or your bass? Doesn't this deserve to be fixed the right way?

Kindest regards,

Jason

The pickups are out of phase, that's why I had to wire the bridge backwards. I don't know if this could cause my problems. I've been wanting to switch the D.Allen out for a Fralin P pickup to see if that clears things up, but at the same time I don't want to buy another expensive pickup if that's not the problem. Both pickups are wound to about the same value, around 10.5k to 11k, which is why I picked these pickups to go together. Of course I know nothing about electronics, so take any of my "knowledge" with a grain of salt.

I'm also wondering why the output is lower when in passive mode than my other passive basses.




I like warm and vintage, but this isn't the same. All my other basses are alder and rosewood and sound much more open than my Fodera.

I'm going to call the shop and see if I can talk to someone. I've had a bit of a hard time getting someone with technical expertise on the phone in past. I know they're really busy.


Thanks guys!


Michael

 

[Just Thumpin']

Absolutely not. Something is wrong with either the pickups, the way things were wired or the preamp settings. There is no reason that your bass should not have plenty of "top end."

J

Does anyone feel the Pope Flexcore is a dark preamp? I'm guessing it's probably not true bypass in passive mode, so maybe this is my issue. I don't remember my YYS sounding dark, but it did have an ebony board.


Michael

 

[phishaholik]

Michael --

In fairness, you have decided to modify your Fodera on your own. Several times in other threads I tried to point out that perhaps it was a bit more complicated and that you should send it to us so that we could make sure that it gets done right. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. There could be any number of things wrong...from ground loop issues, to incompatible pickups, to improperly wired pickups, to a preamp that is set up for the wrong kind of pickups.

Again, please send us the bass and let us go over it in person. This is not something that we can (or should) talk through over the phone. If the engine on your car is not working, do you want a mechanic to talk you through it?

Now, in terms of getting someone on the phone, I am not sure when you called in the past, but our phone hours are from 9:00 am until 3:00 pm and if you ever have trouble getting through you may call my cell phone at 201-362-6910. But in fairness, please do not call just to ask us to trouble shoot a DIY job...is that really fair to either the shop, you or your bass? Doesn't this deserve to be fixed the right way?

Kindest regards,

Jason

Hi Jason,

I'm not sure why you keep asking me what's fair. I haven't disparaged Fodera in the slightest bit and I'll tell anyone who asks that y'all make the finest basses on earth. I have a very well worn 15 year old bass and I don't feel any of the issues I'm asking about are anyone at Foderas fault.

I'm not a typical Fodera owner in that I don't have much money. I haven't been able to afford to send it in to have the work done. I'm just doing what every other TBer does and I'm asking for advice from other forum members.

I've called y'all a few times and every time I do, the person says, "let me ask Joey" and puts me on hold. That's what I meant by, "I haven't been able to get someone with technical expertise on the phone." Honestly, I called three times trying to get my Fodera registered and even after emailing pics I wasn't able to.

I love my Fodera. It's the greatest bass I've ever held and it amazes me and makes me want to play more every day. I hope I'm not pissing off the very people I hold in such high esteem. I'm just trying to get a little help on TB from people with more experience than I have.

I'm hoping to get enough money from my tax return to send it in and have it gone over. I just wanted to exhaust all options first.


Thanks for the reply,


Michael

 

[phishaholik]

I just wanted to add, since I can't edit on my phone, I'm not upset that one of the few luthiers at the shop doesn't have the time to speak to me on the phone and I don't expect them to stop working to answer calls. I really do think y'all make the best basses on earth and my Monarch is my bass wife for life.


Michael

 

[steubig]

hey michael.

think it's time for some soldering fun! i really recommend doing the pickup straight to the jack and see what you think. maybe even do both straight to the jack at the same time, just to see if there are incompatibilities before the pre.

i'm a fan of dyi stuff . . . yep, even on a fodera (much to their chagrin, i might add).

just my 2¢ . . .

 

[ursusaltered]

I would highly recommend sending it in. The EQ alone is a very complex piece of electronics. I would register it online through the website. Super easy, just need you serial number and personal info. As far as trying to modify it alone, unless you are a professional luthier, I would not bother. Just an opinion. Good luck on getting your bass fixed up. I hope the best for you.

 

[ursusaltered]

I have never had a problem talking to Joey. He once sat on the phone with me for about a half hour, walking me through installing a preamp, and adding jumpers.

 

[steubig]

i guess my thought is this:

if it's the p pickup, it's not gonna really help him to send it to the fodera shop. he can just just as easily replace the p pickup and then wire it into the pope. then, if there's a problem, by all means, send it to the shop. but i think he's gonna be *sol* if he took it in only to find out the p pickup itself is faulty or is the source of the tonal problem.

it's very simple to wire a pickup straight to the jack to see if it works. i did it this last week with a pickup that i've been working on with someone—and, believe me, i'm no whiz kid.

 

[cnltb]

I once had a problem with an outboard preamp and sent it half way around the world to get fixed because it needed someone who knows the specific piece to get done well.
It came back to me broken in transit and ended up getting fixed by alocal technician who came highly recommended by people that use him for exactly the kind of job I needed done.
He did a very good job indeed-and inexpensive.
Might this be a route to look into perhaps?