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Thanks for your support!
I guess part of my disappointment really does come from the fact that they had the bass in their hands and were supposed to take a look at it and give it a setup. Besides installing the ramp, the whole idea behind having the bass sent to them instead of directly to me was to make it sure everything is in working order. I wanted to protected myself since I was buying used.
It is always their decision whether they offer any repair work for free on a used instrument and I would never expect or demand that they do. The discussion whether or not they should fix an issue for free as a part of "standing behind their product" is for another point in time.
But it does indeed appear like they did not all of the work they were supposed to do. I'm trying very carefully to not accuse anybody - that often happens in situations like these and not only is it never helpful but can also be harmful for a brand when it happens on the internet. But in the end, some scenarios just seem more likely and realistic than others and I can't beat about the bush regarding all of them.
Thanks for understanding.
- Aug 21, 2008
- 1,168
- 33
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist : Fodera Guitars , Harvest fine leather bags & straps
You were comparing the behavior of the Fodera neck to your other instruments. Fodera does not use graphite rods, other manufactures do. I was asking because they can behave very differently with that material added to the construction of the neck. I'm just trying to qualify your problem and maybe help.
Truss rod not coming out is an issue.
Truss rod not coming out is an issue.
- Jun 3, 2009
- 3,330
- 399
- Disclosures
- Bassgearu, Music Industry Consulting and Sales. Tech 21, NBE Corp, Sonosphere.
I work with Kevin Brubaker and I know many of the boutique builders personally. All builders who build this way will have variations in their basses and between basses. We have a customer who has a six string with single trus rod and the neck hasn't moved more then normal in years. My personal 5 string custom requires tweaking at least once a month and sometimes more depending on the environment. My custom has stupid low action so minor changes seem like major changes. Most of my basses in my collection have high action so even if the neck moves a touch I will rarely notice it. Even Fender basses have this variation. Maybe the wood wasnt perfectly quarter sawn. Maybe it has a little less finish. The list goes on.
I am sure that the boys and girls at Fodera did QC and setup before it went to you. In the transport from the Us to Germany it could easily have been subjected to extremes so when you got it it could have moved.
I am sure that the boys and girls at Fodera did QC and setup before it went to you. In the transport from the Us to Germany it could easily have been subjected to extremes so when you got it it could have moved.
When I originally bought it from someone here on Talkbass, instead of having it shipped directly to me I asked the seller to ship it to Fodera. This has been a few years ago, I think at least 3.
I noticed the neck instability pretty soon, but I thought that maybe the neck needed to settle in for some time after the big change (shipping to Germany). After that, my next step was to change the action from low to relatively high, as I reasoned that the lower the action, the lower the tolerances for neck movement. Again, for some time I played with that kind of setup, more or less ignoring the issue as much as possible, but often had to play with higher action than I found comfortable and didn't really like some of the resulting intonation issues. To be honest I didn't play the bass a lot for 1 1/2 - 2 years because of that. I would say I literally supressed the issue because I was so frustrated.
During that time had already contacted Fodera about the issue (including the rod being hard to adjust) and their reaction was to send me another set of their truss rod adjustment tools, because they weren't sure whether I had the "right ones". (Which of course actually speaks for the customer service, as they didn't charge me for that set of tools, which I appreciate.)
So then I returned the setup back to a medium action and tried adjusting the neck more often again, but most of the time the truss rod tool still wasn't being effective enough.
I also noticed that increment by increment, the truss rod began to max out in the CW direction, so I was at a dead end, even with my frustrating strategy of constantly adjusting the neck.
I contacted Fodera again about it and they suggested to take a look at the setup manual on their webpage. That was around October 2012.
That was also when I tried removing the truss rod (as advised) and noticed that it wouldn't move.
I sent some photos of the neck and truss rod channel and they replied that I'd have to sent them the bass...
Man, I left out so many details... But this has been a very long process for me, during which I tried to solve the problem by myself, with the help of repair guys, by contacting Fodera several times, etc. I think the process has been stretched out by the fact that I always had phases of resignation were I would just ignore the problem because I was so frustrated. There were times when I wanted to sell it, there were times when I researched my options. There were times when I tried to accept it all the way it is. I ruminated about posting my experience on the forum because I didn't want to thoughtlessly tarnish Fodera's brand on the internet, the place were things will be visible forever.
But today, when I browsed the Fodera Club thread again I just couldn't take it any more. Especially when I realized how much I backed myself into a corner by trying to solve the problem on my own and being too reluctant about admitting to myself that "my bass really has a problem" and that I probably made a mistake that cost me several thousand dollars.
To be honest, there are moments where I wish that I could be unscrupulous enough to just sell the bass and pass the problem on to another poor soul. But I can't because I hold myself up to high moral standards.
I noticed the neck instability pretty soon, but I thought that maybe the neck needed to settle in for some time after the big change (shipping to Germany). After that, my next step was to change the action from low to relatively high, as I reasoned that the lower the action, the lower the tolerances for neck movement. Again, for some time I played with that kind of setup, more or less ignoring the issue as much as possible, but often had to play with higher action than I found comfortable and didn't really like some of the resulting intonation issues. To be honest I didn't play the bass a lot for 1 1/2 - 2 years because of that. I would say I literally supressed the issue because I was so frustrated.
During that time had already contacted Fodera about the issue (including the rod being hard to adjust) and their reaction was to send me another set of their truss rod adjustment tools, because they weren't sure whether I had the "right ones". (Which of course actually speaks for the customer service, as they didn't charge me for that set of tools, which I appreciate.)
So then I returned the setup back to a medium action and tried adjusting the neck more often again, but most of the time the truss rod tool still wasn't being effective enough.
I also noticed that increment by increment, the truss rod began to max out in the CW direction, so I was at a dead end, even with my frustrating strategy of constantly adjusting the neck.
I contacted Fodera again about it and they suggested to take a look at the setup manual on their webpage. That was around October 2012.
That was also when I tried removing the truss rod (as advised) and noticed that it wouldn't move.
I sent some photos of the neck and truss rod channel and they replied that I'd have to sent them the bass...
Man, I left out so many details... But this has been a very long process for me, during which I tried to solve the problem by myself, with the help of repair guys, by contacting Fodera several times, etc. I think the process has been stretched out by the fact that I always had phases of resignation were I would just ignore the problem because I was so frustrated. There were times when I wanted to sell it, there were times when I researched my options. There were times when I tried to accept it all the way it is. I ruminated about posting my experience on the forum because I didn't want to thoughtlessly tarnish Fodera's brand on the internet, the place were things will be visible forever.
But today, when I browsed the Fodera Club thread again I just couldn't take it any more. Especially when I realized how much I backed myself into a corner by trying to solve the problem on my own and being too reluctant about admitting to myself that "my bass really has a problem" and that I probably made a mistake that cost me several thousand dollars.
To be honest, there are moments where I wish that I could be unscrupulous enough to just sell the bass and pass the problem on to another poor soul. But I can't because I hold myself up to high moral standards.
hey,
all the following is designed to try to help.
have you looked to see if the truss rod is too far in?
can you show us a picture of the truss rod placement in the cavity?
i ask because some of my truss rods were in too far and that meant that the rods were not as effective.
(i know there is an issue of the rod being hard to move, so this may not help much.)
for what it's worth, i had a few truss rods that took a little bit of coaxing to come out properly. i know it makes people nervous, but it can be done.
all the following is designed to try to help.
have you looked to see if the truss rod is too far in?
can you show us a picture of the truss rod placement in the cavity?
i ask because some of my truss rods were in too far and that meant that the rods were not as effective.
(i know there is an issue of the rod being hard to move, so this may not help much.)
for what it's worth, i had a few truss rods that took a little bit of coaxing to come out properly. i know it makes people nervous, but it can be done.
steubig,
thanks for your support.
I have sent pictures of the truss rod channel to Fodera, but
it's hard to photograph and their reply was that they would need to see the (whole) bass in person (which I can understand).
I have tried to remove the truss rod with finesse and I have tried it remove it with (reasonable amounts of) force until my hands hurt.
I have asked my father to try it to, he didn't have any success.
I brought the bass to a highly-regarded guitar tech and his conclusion was that it can be adjusted with quite some force but that it definitely, absolutely cannot be removed.
thanks for your support.
I have sent pictures of the truss rod channel to Fodera, but
it's hard to photograph and their reply was that they would need to see the (whole) bass in person (which I can understand).
I have tried to remove the truss rod with finesse and I have tried it remove it with (reasonable amounts of) force until my hands hurt.
I have asked my father to try it to, he didn't have any success.
I brought the bass to a highly-regarded guitar tech and his conclusion was that it can be adjusted with quite some force but that it definitely, absolutely cannot be removed.
okay.
i actually had my son gently pull on the bass while i pulled on the truss rod removal tool. i did it a little on 2-3 days in a row and it loosened it enough that it came out far enough to be in the correct position.
have you looked at the picture on their website that shows the proper position? that also might give you some insight.
i actually had my son gently pull on the bass while i pulled on the truss rod removal tool. i did it a little on 2-3 days in a row and it loosened it enough that it came out far enough to be in the correct position.
have you looked at the picture on their website that shows the proper position? that also might give you some insight.
Can you imagine going to a gig and pulling that out your case? A purple fingerboard. People aren't going to know to to process that.
iwearpumas, actually it might seem strange to those who are unfamiliar with a Purpleheart fingerboard.
But I've built a few basses with Purpleheart fingerboards and I can guarantee you something: they are dead stable, have unbelievable tone, sustain and a killer percussive slap sound.
The only downside is refretting it, as removing the old frets tend to pull out rather big chips even with perfectly quartersawn fingerboards.
Depending on the kind of finish applied to the fingerboard (like oil), it will actually oxidize with time and become quite dark. If its polyurethane, polyester or lacquer, it will stay bright purple.
But I've built a few basses with Purpleheart fingerboards and I can guarantee you something: they are dead stable, have unbelievable tone, sustain and a killer percussive slap sound.
The only downside is refretting it, as removing the old frets tend to pull out rather big chips even with perfectly quartersawn fingerboards.
Depending on the kind of finish applied to the fingerboard (like oil), it will actually oxidize with time and become quite dark. If its polyurethane, polyester or lacquer, it will stay bright purple.
apropos of a conversation topic earlier:
http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...sda-report-amendment-20130531,0,6818725.story
http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...sda-report-amendment-20130531,0,6818725.story
I tried that with my father, yes. I also had the bass at a guitar tech. And yes, I looked at the picture on the website. I will try again...
I also feel the need to say the following:
I do not feel entitled to anything. I don't think that Fodera should just offer to fix the bass for free. I think Fodera's wish to take a look at the bass is entirely reasonable. I think their behaviour is well within limits of what I call good customer service.
Whether they decide to react to my posts (in public or in private) is also entirely up to them and I understand if they don't. That's also a reasonable way of handling this, especially taking into account their offer to look at the bass.
I will say that with the way the present themselves in this forum with regards to providing "ultimate" customer service and standing behind their products I would expect someone to contact me to work on a solution. I will not hold it against them
if they don't, but I will definitely take that as a sign that they offer "normal, good" customer service and not "exceptionally great" customer service.
Again, I'm trying hard to create a fair representation of the situation.
It's just that some of the details of the original deal (Fodera being supposed to check/setup the bass) and the nature of the instrument's problems (very, very likely they were present from from the very beginning) make it very hard for me personally not to question whether I really received an instrument that is up to Fodera's advertised quality standards.
I try to not blame anyone and simply file it under "bad luck", but I guess you can imagine that it's not always easy when being very frustrated, especially if it's something that's not only very expensive but also something you're very passionate about.
I'm not trying to tarnish the brand of Fodera or question their integrity.
I think it's OK for a thread like this on a public forum to contain some less positive experiences, too. There were some comments from other people who also have not very stable necks on their Fodera basses. I think this is valuable information for someone researching their product and serves to create a balanced image.
The description of my sitation is probably also valuable information for people living outside of the US and looking into buying a Fodera, used or new.
Even if you are careful and receive normal customer service, you might be looking at a financial risk of spending hundreds
of dollars if a problem with your bass arises. This might be the case with every imported boutique bass, but this doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be mentioned.
I'm not giving up on the truss rod. Maybe I will finally be able to remove it one day and everything will come together.
There have also been some very supportive PMs with very good suggestions about solving my problem with less financial risk.
Thanks for all of your support, understanding and maturity.
I do not feel entitled to anything. I don't think that Fodera should just offer to fix the bass for free. I think Fodera's wish to take a look at the bass is entirely reasonable. I think their behaviour is well within limits of what I call good customer service.
Whether they decide to react to my posts (in public or in private) is also entirely up to them and I understand if they don't. That's also a reasonable way of handling this, especially taking into account their offer to look at the bass.
I will say that with the way the present themselves in this forum with regards to providing "ultimate" customer service and standing behind their products I would expect someone to contact me to work on a solution. I will not hold it against them
if they don't, but I will definitely take that as a sign that they offer "normal, good" customer service and not "exceptionally great" customer service.
Again, I'm trying hard to create a fair representation of the situation.
It's just that some of the details of the original deal (Fodera being supposed to check/setup the bass) and the nature of the instrument's problems (very, very likely they were present from from the very beginning) make it very hard for me personally not to question whether I really received an instrument that is up to Fodera's advertised quality standards.
I try to not blame anyone and simply file it under "bad luck", but I guess you can imagine that it's not always easy when being very frustrated, especially if it's something that's not only very expensive but also something you're very passionate about.
I'm not trying to tarnish the brand of Fodera or question their integrity.
I think it's OK for a thread like this on a public forum to contain some less positive experiences, too. There were some comments from other people who also have not very stable necks on their Fodera basses. I think this is valuable information for someone researching their product and serves to create a balanced image.
The description of my sitation is probably also valuable information for people living outside of the US and looking into buying a Fodera, used or new.
Even if you are careful and receive normal customer service, you might be looking at a financial risk of spending hundreds
of dollars if a problem with your bass arises. This might be the case with every imported boutique bass, but this doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be mentioned.
I'm not giving up on the truss rod. Maybe I will finally be able to remove it one day and everything will come together.
There have also been some very supportive PMs with very good suggestions about solving my problem with less financial risk.
Thanks for all of your support, understanding and maturity.
Just Thumpin'
Commercial User
- Mar 7, 2008
- 4,534
- 1,664
- Disclosures
- Manager and Partner, Fodera Guitars (10/14/09 - 12/16/19)
Firstly, on behalf of all of us here at Fodera, let me apologize to you for the problems that you are having. In no way do I want to make light of them, minimize them or sound defensive. Towards that end, PLEASE contact us at the shop at:
[email protected]
I do, however, feel compelled to at least lay out my thoughts...
1. I have posted my personal email and phone number ([email protected] and 201-362-6910) many, many times throughout the Fodera threads. If you are ever not feeling like you are satisfied with how we have handled something, please feel free to contact me directly. For whatever reason, the issue surrounding your bass has never made it to my desk.
2. The sad reality of buying a used instrument and why our new instrument warranty is not transferable is that we have no idea what happens to an instrument once it goes out into the World. on very rare occasion we do build a neck that is not stable -- sadly that is one of the downsides of working with completely natural material. However, our warranty allows for this in that all woodworking is covered for five (5) years and, as such, had the neck been deemed unstable by the original owner during the first 5 years we would have replaced it for free -- no questions asked. That said, we have only had to replace an instrument (or neck) for a neck issue 2 or 3 times in 30+ years, so it is extremely rare.
3. Please do not take the advice of the person that said you should take the FB off of the bass. We have never had a truss rod that we could not remove, no matter how stuck it may have appeared to be. The best approach is to send the bass back for us to inspect it, diagnose the problem and (hopefully) be able to fix it.
4. I am not sure when you sent the instrument to us for making the ramp, but I only became involved here as of October 2009 and prior to that our customer service was at a different level. We now have a team of people dedicated to taking care of our customers in a way that we just couldn't previously. However, the need to adjust a truss rod is completely dependent on weather conditions and no matter when you sent in your bass for a set up (whether it was before I was involved or not), I am certain that the bass left the shop properly adjusted. Joey, me or Vinny are the only people that do final set-ups on our instruments before they leave the shop and none of us would dream of sending a bass back out into the World with an improperly adjusted truss rod. But, if the climate conditions in Brooklyn when your bass was here did not require us to reverse the truss rod, we would have never known that it could not be removed. So saying that we did not do all of the necessary repair work is really not fair, is it?
5. Had your concerns about the repair that you received had been raised immediately (3 years ago -- whether it was before, or after I became involved), I am 100% certain that we would have flown the bass back to the shop at our expense to address the problem. But again, this was over three years ago now.
No human being, or company, is perfect -- something we remind ourselves of everyday. But we will ALWAYS try to do right by a Fodera customer. We view the Fodera community as part of our larger family. We very much hope to be able to resolve your issue. However, it will involve some expense on your part as we cannot even figure out what is going on with this kind of problem without having the bass in our shop.
Kindest regards,
Jason
[email protected]
I do, however, feel compelled to at least lay out my thoughts...
1. I have posted my personal email and phone number ([email protected] and 201-362-6910) many, many times throughout the Fodera threads. If you are ever not feeling like you are satisfied with how we have handled something, please feel free to contact me directly. For whatever reason, the issue surrounding your bass has never made it to my desk.
2. The sad reality of buying a used instrument and why our new instrument warranty is not transferable is that we have no idea what happens to an instrument once it goes out into the World. on very rare occasion we do build a neck that is not stable -- sadly that is one of the downsides of working with completely natural material. However, our warranty allows for this in that all woodworking is covered for five (5) years and, as such, had the neck been deemed unstable by the original owner during the first 5 years we would have replaced it for free -- no questions asked. That said, we have only had to replace an instrument (or neck) for a neck issue 2 or 3 times in 30+ years, so it is extremely rare.
3. Please do not take the advice of the person that said you should take the FB off of the bass. We have never had a truss rod that we could not remove, no matter how stuck it may have appeared to be. The best approach is to send the bass back for us to inspect it, diagnose the problem and (hopefully) be able to fix it.
4. I am not sure when you sent the instrument to us for making the ramp, but I only became involved here as of October 2009 and prior to that our customer service was at a different level. We now have a team of people dedicated to taking care of our customers in a way that we just couldn't previously. However, the need to adjust a truss rod is completely dependent on weather conditions and no matter when you sent in your bass for a set up (whether it was before I was involved or not), I am certain that the bass left the shop properly adjusted. Joey, me or Vinny are the only people that do final set-ups on our instruments before they leave the shop and none of us would dream of sending a bass back out into the World with an improperly adjusted truss rod. But, if the climate conditions in Brooklyn when your bass was here did not require us to reverse the truss rod, we would have never known that it could not be removed. So saying that we did not do all of the necessary repair work is really not fair, is it?
5. Had your concerns about the repair that you received had been raised immediately (3 years ago -- whether it was before, or after I became involved), I am 100% certain that we would have flown the bass back to the shop at our expense to address the problem. But again, this was over three years ago now.
No human being, or company, is perfect -- something we remind ourselves of everyday. But we will ALWAYS try to do right by a Fodera customer. We view the Fodera community as part of our larger family. We very much hope to be able to resolve your issue. However, it will involve some expense on your part as we cannot even figure out what is going on with this kind of problem without having the bass in our shop.
Kindest regards,
Jason
Just Thumpin'
Commercial User
- Mar 7, 2008
- 4,534
- 1,664
- Disclosures
- Manager and Partner, Fodera Guitars (10/14/09 - 12/16/19)
As you can see from the timing of our posts, I was responding to you at exactly the same time that you were writing this.
Please note that as of this moment (9:48am EDT) I have never received a PM from you, I have no emails from you and no one on our service team has fielded any inquiries from you in recent memory. I just called everyone that handles incoming service inquiries together and shared your posts to ask specifically if they have been working with anyone recently related to an issue like this. No one said that they have been (and there only four possible people who answer service inquiries). I do not understand why you would make a post like yours in light of no one here having heard from you. Again, these posts over the past two days are the first time anyone on our Team has heard anything about this in recent memory.
Usually I do not make posts that directly contradict another TB member, but in fairness, we do take customer service extremely seriously and your post makes it sound as though we have been unresponsive. Is it possible that you are using an old email address to try getting in touch?
Sincerely,
Jason
Please note that as of this moment (9:48am EDT) I have never received a PM from you, I have no emails from you and no one on our service team has fielded any inquiries from you in recent memory. I just called everyone that handles incoming service inquiries together and shared your posts to ask specifically if they have been working with anyone recently related to an issue like this. No one said that they have been (and there only four possible people who answer service inquiries). I do not understand why you would make a post like yours in light of no one here having heard from you. Again, these posts over the past two days are the first time anyone on our Team has heard anything about this in recent memory.
Usually I do not make posts that directly contradict another TB member, but in fairness, we do take customer service extremely seriously and your post makes it sound as though we have been unresponsive. Is it possible that you are using an old email address to try getting in touch?
Sincerely,
Jason
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