The NS Design Radius has the same feature and it's fine. Although I don't fall off the end of the neck with my Steinberger L2, it does provide physical feedback to your position.
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The NS Design Radius has the same feature and it's fine. Although I don't fall off the end of the neck with my Steinberger L2, it does provide physical feedback to your position.
Sometimes I wonder what goes in some people's head before clicking on a thread..." Oh look a custom made headless Fodera, I wonder if it costs more than $3 ... Wow it's more than $3 ... Outrageous! I shall show my knowledge of the bass guitar universe by pointing out the flaws of the bass and finding cheaper options ... They will pay for this with bloooddd!"
Ok, maybe I'm exaggerating... But see my point?
Ok, maybe I'm exaggerating... But see my point?
That's talkbass. The same reason people click on P bass threads and complain about too many P bass threads
That said, this thread is promoted as news so I think people have the right to express opinions on it.
Any of our opinions on the Mini G are not meant to degrade the Imperial Mini G's quality in any way. I'm sure it is a top quality instrument and is obviously intended for pro players who invest in only the best of the best. It's just that $11.5K is well above a feasible investment for any players other than top pros or those with quite a bit of disposable income. Fodera isn't a high-volume manufacturer and these basses are what they are what they are and I'm sure you will sell them. Most of us are just jealous.
No, that's not it. I do believe that basses like this and their price points are a bit like buying a high priced wine - the laws of diminishing practical returns start to apply above a certain amount. The high dollar amount then becomes about the specific labor/time involved in developing a unique product in an extremely limited production and and then the buyer having the knowledge that they own one of these distinguished products.
Yes, thanks please! I live in Sweden! What an opportunity for you. And me! Are the flight tickets (return) for me included in this price? It seems the only way to test drive it properly, to bring it onboard on any international flight. The main incentive for it.
If so, what's the point fanfaring about it here then, when pics, and YT flicks only tells so much?
well then, start to debunk our fears then. What have we been wrong on? Double ball end strings? Does it takes just regular strings? We know that you've been wrong on one assumption, and that's the "headless lacks tonal character". Like...not some, not most, but all of them.
Roland GR 88
Commercial User
I think what we've been 'wrong on' is the simple acceptance that there is a market for a 11k travel bass and a run of 100 will probably fill it.
I like the wine analogy. Unique and rare wine costs a bundle and there's no use complaining if you're a beer drinker.
I think the approach for many of us on here was making it sound like we were critiquing the price of the bass rather than being wide-eyed at it. There WILL be buyers for it. The more I think about it the price could actually be justifiable given the proprietary nature of the components used to build the bass. Fodera only puts out absolute top of the line product and they're free to charge whatever the market will demand and provide the employees with good wages, health care, etc...
Unique and rare beers cost a bundle, too. But that bundle size is usually a whole degree of wealth below wine.
In light of all that I've said in previous posts though I think this is the most expensive "new" bass I've ever seen.
I just pre-ordered two of these myself:
One to fit into the overhead bin in my personal aircraft, and one to fit in another overhead bin in an airplane following the one im in as a backup.
One to fit into the overhead bin in my personal aircraft, and one to fit in another overhead bin in an airplane following the one im in as a backup.
AS FOR HEADLESS INSTRUMENTS, WHICH IS PRETTY MUCH ALL I PLAY ,HAVING A LACK OF TONAL RESPONSE ...WITHOUT A GRAPHITE NECK THATS PROBABLY GENERALLY TRUE ...11K FOR THIS IS JUST LAUGHABLE ..I PERSONALLY WOULDNT ENTERTAIN IT EVEN IF I HAD MONEY TO BURN, DONT UNDERSTAND ALL THE FUSS ABOUT FODERA IN GENERAL .....I'D TAKE A DOZEN LESS EXPENSIVE BRANDS OF BASSES STARTING WITH THE STATUS 2 POSTS AWAY ANYDAY ....TO EACH HIS OWN I GUESS....OH AND ITS UGLY FOR A HEADLESS TOO
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Oh dear. What flame this instrument has started.
Me think it's not only the plus 11 K pricetag. It's the assertion that all headless lacks a tonal response. While Fodera makes great other basses (not 11 K not headless) which would very well be on my wishlist, you have to keep in mind there are other high end bass makers too, in the market. There are other competing companies who has their employees down to health insurance, and so on. We have and must have the right to point out early what we don't like about it.
It's a one person customized, for him only instrument. I think Fodera really has to accept a lot of flak, not because the price only but their stance on headless in general. I do not think Fodera or any other custom luthier company has the time to try out and watch and be wary of all the competition. However, the customers, the music stores, the reapairmen encounters Dingwalls, Foderas, Tobias, Alembics, SEI, LeFay more often, and detects all their advantages and shortcomings.
Fodera as company I have nothing against since they are producing other basses in different ranges. Most of them plus 3K range, so I am game with that. I would even love to own one! AFAIK it seems to be their first "headless" so to speak. I know then, if for 11K, I don't want someone elses placement of pickups, or controls, or output jack. I want all things to be to a tee, to my ergonomic choices, not someone elses. There's nothing I could feel or hear in this instrument that could deep six any of my quibbles with special strings, or the layout of the controls. You see, at this price tag, more things have to be right...too. And then some. I know it can be made, and we only compare with the competition that's already out there. If presented at NAMM or a fair, I would get in your booth, try it, asking impertinent questions, and I probably would get thrown out of there.
And if the Lotto Win comes down, (but I don't gamble) or if I really had the means to waste 11 K on any instrument, I would look elsewhere even before I tried it. If I had that amount of money I could ask some luthier with less overhead, to just make a bass to my liking only, and my customizations. Headless or not. I find there's little reason or rational paying 11 K on any instrument that has been customized to fit like a glove to any other person. I want - only - my dreams to come true. Not someone elses.
The main culprit, is that nevermind how good it sounds, or feels when playing, the things we have picked on here, so far, the looks, the layout of the controls, the mechanical solutions to d-tuning should be of little concern to the overall sound and feel of the instrument. While you seem to have thought of one thing, you most certainly haven't thought of everything. At that level, you really have to ramp up the miniscule things. Say, Dingwall would - at least - made it look like an 11.6 K instrument. Other luthiers might have a go at this too.
Still, I haven't seen any explanation yet, from the company, what's the point of having a "D-tuner" at the E-string only, to be able to drop to B. Very few, if any, plays with a B string and the rest A-D-G-C left in regular tuning. Perhaps any of the rest of the TB'ers around here would chime in if they do.
Still haven't heard of what kind of strings it can take. Both double ball ends and regular? Only regular? Still, their site doesn't list weight or total length. Mind you, bringing an item onboard any flight will not just care about size, but weight too. There's too many questions left, and I find it sort of a cultural decline if all luthier bass manufacturers skimp on specs, and just makes basses for those few collectors who has the dough, but not really are musicians. Like some sort of Bose thing, or sports car. "How many horsepwer does this Rolls Royce have?" "ENOUGH!". How' fast can this car go "ENOUGH FOR YOU!"
Or when actually buying it, later down the road your faced with a couple of "cold showers" when it comes to maintenance, or such simple things as changing strings. All caveats must be turned on, and be presented to the public here. There's absolutely no way, it' worth it, no matter how good it feels, sounds, or play if you're stuck to going to have Foderas special strings set all of the time. And if Fodera tells me that it is needed in order for making it sound like that, and feel like that, they're so full of it. And if I meet a person who buys it, and buys all that crap, well then, good for him, but it's no one I am confident with in even having it just as a conversation piece.
You have to calculate this: 11.6 K price tag = impertinent comments, and questions from us all. At 1.600 USD? None at all. Or even 3K. Do you think this would cause the same reactions if it came (or you just stated up a mock price) if it came in like 2.000 USD ?
Look up the expression: Ipse Dixitism. Authority argument.
Me think it's not only the plus 11 K pricetag. It's the assertion that all headless lacks a tonal response. While Fodera makes great other basses (not 11 K not headless) which would very well be on my wishlist, you have to keep in mind there are other high end bass makers too, in the market. There are other competing companies who has their employees down to health insurance, and so on. We have and must have the right to point out early what we don't like about it.
It's a one person customized, for him only instrument. I think Fodera really has to accept a lot of flak, not because the price only but their stance on headless in general. I do not think Fodera or any other custom luthier company has the time to try out and watch and be wary of all the competition. However, the customers, the music stores, the reapairmen encounters Dingwalls, Foderas, Tobias, Alembics, SEI, LeFay more often, and detects all their advantages and shortcomings.
Fodera as company I have nothing against since they are producing other basses in different ranges. Most of them plus 3K range, so I am game with that. I would even love to own one! AFAIK it seems to be their first "headless" so to speak. I know then, if for 11K, I don't want someone elses placement of pickups, or controls, or output jack. I want all things to be to a tee, to my ergonomic choices, not someone elses. There's nothing I could feel or hear in this instrument that could deep six any of my quibbles with special strings, or the layout of the controls. You see, at this price tag, more things have to be right...too. And then some. I know it can be made, and we only compare with the competition that's already out there. If presented at NAMM or a fair, I would get in your booth, try it, asking impertinent questions, and I probably would get thrown out of there.
And if the Lotto Win comes down, (but I don't gamble) or if I really had the means to waste 11 K on any instrument, I would look elsewhere even before I tried it. If I had that amount of money I could ask some luthier with less overhead, to just make a bass to my liking only, and my customizations. Headless or not. I find there's little reason or rational paying 11 K on any instrument that has been customized to fit like a glove to any other person. I want - only - my dreams to come true. Not someone elses.
The main culprit, is that nevermind how good it sounds, or feels when playing, the things we have picked on here, so far, the looks, the layout of the controls, the mechanical solutions to d-tuning should be of little concern to the overall sound and feel of the instrument. While you seem to have thought of one thing, you most certainly haven't thought of everything. At that level, you really have to ramp up the miniscule things. Say, Dingwall would - at least - made it look like an 11.6 K instrument. Other luthiers might have a go at this too.
Still, I haven't seen any explanation yet, from the company, what's the point of having a "D-tuner" at the E-string only, to be able to drop to B. Very few, if any, plays with a B string and the rest A-D-G-C left in regular tuning. Perhaps any of the rest of the TB'ers around here would chime in if they do.
Still haven't heard of what kind of strings it can take. Both double ball ends and regular? Only regular? Still, their site doesn't list weight or total length. Mind you, bringing an item onboard any flight will not just care about size, but weight too. There's too many questions left, and I find it sort of a cultural decline if all luthier bass manufacturers skimp on specs, and just makes basses for those few collectors who has the dough, but not really are musicians. Like some sort of Bose thing, or sports car. "How many horsepwer does this Rolls Royce have?" "ENOUGH!". How' fast can this car go "ENOUGH FOR YOU!"
Or when actually buying it, later down the road your faced with a couple of "cold showers" when it comes to maintenance, or such simple things as changing strings. All caveats must be turned on, and be presented to the public here. There's absolutely no way, it' worth it, no matter how good it feels, sounds, or play if you're stuck to going to have Foderas special strings set all of the time. And if Fodera tells me that it is needed in order for making it sound like that, and feel like that, they're so full of it. And if I meet a person who buys it, and buys all that crap, well then, good for him, but it's no one I am confident with in even having it just as a conversation piece.
You have to calculate this: 11.6 K price tag = impertinent comments, and questions from us all. At 1.600 USD? None at all. Or even 3K. Do you think this would cause the same reactions if it came (or you just stated up a mock price) if it came in like 2.000 USD ?
Look up the expression: Ipse Dixitism. Authority argument.
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Besides all this: When in it is residing in its case...bringing it onboard a flight, doesn't it really looks like a machine gun instead of a pristine instrument?
I think one problem is that the competition, when it comes to headless basses, seems on the face of it to have solved a few problems pointed out in this thread a lot more elegantly than fodera has managed to and at a more reasonable price point/without compromises in quality parts and craftsmanship.(Not that Fodera need to reason with anyone; their basses sell -I myself would love a monarch - and I think this one might too; case closed.) But referencing what Jason said "Yes, we could easily send our manufacturing oversees and cut our prices by 75% or so, but then our instruments would be radically different than what we want them to be.".
I don't know what they want their instruments to be.
I know that some companies do achieve the same built quality(quality of materials etc) at lower price points without sending manufacturing overseas.
And whilst I appreciate that running a company where Fodera are running a company must be very expensive(and possibly more so than running one where/how some others, I could think of, are run), that's nothing I am interested in when looking at one specific bass and its competitors. I also don't pay extra because xyz bassist is named in connection with a bass.
But; maybe all this fades into insignificance once I get my hands on one of these headsless basses, which I'd really like if one ever comes to near me!
Save the judgement until then.
I don't know what they want their instruments to be.
I know that some companies do achieve the same built quality(quality of materials etc) at lower price points without sending manufacturing overseas.
And whilst I appreciate that running a company where Fodera are running a company must be very expensive(and possibly more so than running one where/how some others, I could think of, are run), that's nothing I am interested in when looking at one specific bass and its competitors. I also don't pay extra because xyz bassist is named in connection with a bass.
But; maybe all this fades into insignificance once I get my hands on one of these headsless basses, which I'd really like if one ever comes to near me!
Save the judgement until then.
Jason answered the weight question in the Fodera thread( I think it was 8.8 pound).
I think it does take regular as well as double ball end strings( you pull the regular string through the headpiece and screw it down as you do on the ABM or ETS units.
Fodera is not the only company that can supply 30" headless strings I'm sure.
I had custom length ones wound by newtonestrings a while ago. There must be others able to do that, I guess.
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