Fodera vs other high end basses

[Schlyder]

We know with boutique basses, after a certain $ figure, we are paying for aesthetic features. But that doesn't mean those features are frivolous or have no use beyond looking pretty. As, Brams77 pointed out, he felt pressure that he had to perform better. It can also work the other way in that it may elevate your performance.

When I work with a student/client looking for new golf clubs, it is the same sort of thing. I explain that after deciding what basic features you need, you want to choose something that looks good to you. That when you hold it in your hands it makes you feel good, and you have confidence in your abilities. And you are motivated to play and practice more. That does have a positive effect on performance.

Some features/design just aren't available somewhere else, at a lower price point.

 

[Baird6869]

Couldn't agree more. and the reality is a good bass player can sound amazing on a $200 squier.

I often gig my $299 Squier VM Jazz along with my Fodera.

The Fodera does sound much better. It is in a different league in fact. The Fodera playability is also light years ahead of the Squier.

Does the Fodera sound/play 20x better than the Squier? Obviously this is subjective and many players would say no.

A Fodera or other high end custom is definately not for everybody.... which is cool too.

 

[cnltb]

I often gig my $299 Squier VM Jazz along with my Fodera.

The Fodera does sound much better. It is in a different league in fact. The Fodera playability is also light years ahead of the Squier.

Does the Fodera sound/play 20x better than the Squier? Obviously this is subjective and many players would say no.

A Fodera or other high end custom is definately not for everybody.... which is cool too.

Don't forget how much a proper set up does to the playability and even tone of an instrument

 

[Schlyder]

DirtPoorRobins - "My reason for buying fodera and fodera only from now on is the customization. I have only asked at a couple of other companies, who declined, so I can't say for sure, but I don't think many other top bass companies offer as many options as fodera. Can any other company say they will do any (reasonable) scale length, string spacing, pickup combination, number of pickups, changes to their preamp, body shape (modify any shape to fit you exactly), neck shape (will even match your favorite neck) and even a sliding pickup system. And most of those options are not an upcharge. They have been the first company that will listen to and do exactly everything my OCD desires can come up with.

Jerzy Drozd does. I had customized scale length, string spacing, pickup location, electronics configuration, body shape modified to my specs, neck shape and width, selected the blanks of wood for the body. And there was tons more options available. Some no charge, some are additional cost. Pretty much anything you want is available though.

 

[Baird6869]

As, Brams77 pointed out, he felt pressure that he had to perform better. It can also work the other way in that it may elevate your performance.

The logic behind the Brams77's point makes sense, but IME almost nobody in the crowd even knows what a Fodera is. I never feel pressure to play like Wooten on a gig because I play a Fodera.

I agree with your point though. My Fodera cuts thru the mix so well that every little mistake is much more noticeable than any of my other basses. It does make me play better/practice more.

 

[Baird6869]

Don't forget how much a proper set up does to the playability and even tone of an instrument

Sure. Both my basses are set up perfectly for me in any case.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

Don't forget how much a proper set up does to the playability and even tone of an instrument

Exactly.

 

[uOpt]

I also think that people misunderstand "Fender Custom" which I take means the Custom Shop.

Fender CS doesn't do higher quality than the AVRI line. In fact it seems that the more streamlined AVRI production leads to a bit less quality control issues. Fender CS also doesn't do actual custom work, you can't order what you want from them. Fender CS provides instruments with features not found in the other lines. It doesn't offer better playability or sound than AVRI. However, the only regular line at top quality is AVRI and options are very limited in that line. So you go CS if you want something -feature-wise - not offered in the AVRI line. All that relic stuff is in there. Now that the CS usually doesn't offer figured maple in reissue instruments I think the CS isn't all that attractive.

IMHO if you can do your own fretwork or you are willing to spend some $$$ for a really good fret job elsewhere the whole business of high-end versions of Fender Precision Bass and Fender Jazz bass is a bit overrated. Leo's original basses were well made but you don't have to go $4000 to get the equivalent today.

Things are different if you want various forms of basses that aren't bolt-on maple neck.

 

[pacojas]

@uOpt,.... you forgot the obligatory, "IMO"!

the Fender CS stuff is waaay better (in more ways than one) than the AVRI's, IMHO!

 

[nutdog]

after deciding what basic features you need, you want to choose something that looks good to you. That when you hold it in your hands it makes you feel good, and you have confidence in your abilities. And you are motivated to play and practice more. That does have a positive effect on performance.

Some features/design just aren't available somewhere else, at a lower price point.

Also applicable when choosing a wife.

 

[Bass Viking]

I was talking about the quality, not selection (though the web site is quite bad since you mention it). A brand new Smith ( as in this year) I purchased had uneven seams on the back of the neck. The response from Ken was "wood moves!" Um, ok. I sent it back at a loss. Stark contrast to current Fodera customer service. I don't have any experience with their past so I can't comment on that but some people seem to love to piss on them for things that happened a decade or two ago.

No builder is perfect. A key point for me is how they react to issues. In my personal experience over the past few years, Fodera has been great. As have a number of other builders.

All the basses I've owned that have multi laminate necks & a soft finish display this issue. Just knowing that it's normal puts my mind at ease. Did you send it back because of the uneven seams or because of Ken's response?

 

[Brams77]

My reason for buying fodera and fodera only from now on is the customization. I have only asked at a couple of other companies, who declined, so I can't say for sure, but I don't think many other top bass companies offer as many options as fodera. Can any other company say they will do any (reasonable) scale length, string spacing, pickup combination, number of pickups, changes to their preamp, body shape (modify any shape to fit you exactly), neck shape (will even match your favorite neck) and even a sliding pickup system. And most of those options are not an upcharge. They have been the first company that will listen to and do exactly everything my OCD desires can come up with.

If that is what you think no wonder your dirt poor
Its all good tho

 

[spade2you]

I think it's possible to get an extremely nice bass without having to spend that kind of dough. I'm reluctant to mention my favorite luthiers because they seem to be getting too popular at the moment.

 

[rmayer]

That is a bit of a different topic, and I agree in general. However, the OP was asking specifically if the $9K-$12K of a Fodera makes it 'better' than the $3K to 4K of most other hi end boutiques.

The only answer is 'maybe'

Edit: I am a fan of Fodera's in general, to be clear, and given they are selling every bass they make, their price point is by definition reasonable and appropriate. I was just speaking to the more general point of 'absolute level of workmanship and quality and tonality and playability' versus other high end instruments. They are parity with the other top luthiers/companies, IMO in an absolute sense, but of course, like any other instrument, might be worth the price if the entire package speaks to you more than another boutique (or non boutique!).

My read on the OP is that he was asking "specifically" if a used Fodera under $5K was worth buying over the other "boutique" basses listed. IMO I don't think Fender Custom Shop should be in the list, having owned a few even before the prices jumped. I just don't think they're worth the money, I sold a Custom Shop Jazz to buy my first Sadosky, a Metro Hybrid. The Metro blew the CS away, sound wise and fit and finish.
I feel the used Fodera is definitely a way to go for the OP, although compared to Sadowskys and other bolt-ons, the new Fodera Standard series are very impressive basses for the money ($4700-5700 range) in 4 & 5 strings. The dual coils really sound great and you can get a wide range of tone out of them. I'm on my second custom, had a Monarch Deluxe (P/J) for 5 years, sold it for a profit and ordered a Monarch Elite (neck-thru) with dual coils for just over $9K. I sold 3 basses total to finance the one Fodera and I'm glad I did. It's the best bass I've ever owned, or ever played, hands down. I also have a Sadowsky NYC, 2 Lulls (a 54P & a Jazz) and a Carvin AC40 fretted. While all of my other basses are great instruments, every time I pick up the Fodera I ask myself why do I need anything else? No one carves a neck like Vinny. Just my opinion, FWIW.

 

[sricabla]

Alembic has been making custom instruments since 1969. The first truly custom instrument company who produced instruments for many, many rock acts of the day.Here is a link of their history as told by them. A very interesting read indeed!

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[nostatic]

All the basses I've owned that have multi laminate necks & a soft finish display this issue. Just knowing that it's normal puts my mind at ease. Did you send it back because of the uneven seams or because of Ken's response?

A little of both. I have a Fodera with a 5-piece neck that is dead nuts perfect. Same with my Rob Allen. Plenty of good choices out there, so no need to settle.

 

[Bass Viking]

A little of both. I have a Fodera with a 5-piece neck that is dead nuts perfect. Same with my Rob Allen. Plenty of good choices out there, so no need to settle.

It could still happen depending on what your necks are finished with (hopefully it won't). The basses I've experienced this on are:

- Dingwall Afterburner 1
- Warwick Infinity neck through
- Ken Smith BSR5MW

 

[PJ Muzikmansky]

Also applicable when choosing a wife.

Brilliant !

 

[Munjibunga]

It wasn't me but I have heard a Fodera or two that for what ever reason wasn't sounding to kool but that could have been a dieing battery as the culprit. But it's not unrealistic for any bass not to sound good(sound is subjective).

What's most interesting about this thread is that some people are trying very hard to make Fodera basses for every one when no bass is for every one.


MTD's sound awesome but not for every one, craftsmanship is right up there with Fodera as well as so many other basses on the market today.


Ken Smith, great bass all around and it would be unfair to say that Smith is not a contender in the super boutique bass world when the quality and craftsmanship is right before our eyes.

If Brubaker had the proper machine behind him he would rival Fodera.

Dingwall's quality is killer but the fanned fret system sets a lot of players back,

If Dingwall offered a none fanned model I think it would put the brand in a whole different zone.

There are a lot of great brands out there.

And sound is subjective.

Agreed 1,000 percent.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Actually no problem separating the two - hence why I usually qualify my opinions with something being the best *for me*.

That said, it is not opinion to state that at least a few of the boutique builders mentioned in this thread as being "equivalent" to Fodera in fact do not produce as wide a variety of builds on a regular basis. They are predominantly bolt-on construction, and some only do 4 and 5-string variants of a bolt-on. Nothing inherently wrong with that, but is is another factor that plays into the equation.

With Roscoe, Sadowsky, MTD, you do not see a variety of single-cutaway, double-cutaway, bolt-on, dovetail, neck-through, 4, 5, 6-string, etc. Again, I'm not claiming that is better or worse, but it certainly is a point of differentiation. That is a tangible difference.

While they may not do a variety of builds on a regular basis, getting most of the shops to do non-standard (for them) options is as simple as...

1. Asking and
2. Being willing to pay the upcharge.


So you can't really blame anyone for not building something no one ordered... yet.

Fodera is no different in that respect. Last year there was a shop that was selling several extremely non-standard used Foderas on ebay including a 12 string AJ style painted singlecut with a ladybug in place of the butterfly... and many of the rest bore no resemblance to Fodera's regular models. I would imagine the ladybug bass included a healthy upcharge.



So it's really not of matter of what a shop doesn't do, it's about what people will foot the bill for. Short of directly copying someone else's design of course.