Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Fort Hood Shooting
- Thread starter ProgRapture
- Start date
It must be really great to oversimplify everything like that. 
My guess, and this is just a guess, mind you, is that this event happened because a man who held a particular viewpoint took action based on his views. Whether there could have been action taken to avoid these circumstances and whether or not the people in charge of that sort of thing dropped the ball really has nothing to do with being Politically Correct, unless of course you're implying that they shouldn't have let a Muslim into the military...
My guess, and this is just a guess, mind you, is that this event happened because a man who held a particular viewpoint took action based on his views. Whether there could have been action taken to avoid these circumstances and whether or not the people in charge of that sort of thing dropped the ball really has nothing to do with being Politically Correct, unless of course you're implying that they shouldn't have let a Muslim into the military...
Only when folks ignore warning signs and good DISARMED soldiers die because of it.
If one of the dead was your son(or daughter) what would you say?
If one of the dead was your son(or daughter) what would you say?
He was a muslim terrorist. I have no doubt that jihad was his sole reason for the killings. Millions of people are stressed. Heck, I've been stressed, but I never thought "I'm gonna shoot people because I am stressed out."
My heart and prayers go out to those familes of our slain soldiers. The danger is supposed to be over there, not here.
My heart and prayers go out to those familes of our slain soldiers. The danger is supposed to be over there, not here.
I'd ask why the Ft. Carson murders are being slighted in coverage when they present a much more terrifying picture of what's going on today. If I was the parent of a solider, or if one of my friends in the armed services died in something like this, I'd be much more afraid if they were executed by their own people than by an infiltrated terrorist.
I'd also ask the FBI to give me a real good reason why this guy didn't receive more scrutiny. But I wouldn't bring an unrelated concept like Political Correctness into the discussion.
It must be really great to oversimplify everything like that.
The thing is, I don't have a bazillion hours a day to make long posts; I have to produce so that my family has a home and gets to eat. So let me UNSIMPLIFY it for you, but I'll still keep it simple anyway:
Read thru all the posts here and newsreports and the one common thread is that all the signs were there that this guy was going to eventually do something.
But they, the military, FBI, government, etal., turned a blind eye to the situation because we live in a country where we can no longer state the obvious for fear of offending someone and or some people. If you don't think that's the truth, what can I say?
But try explaining to the parents of the dead why this guy was left in the military so long.
It must be really great to oversimplify everything like that.
My guess, and this is just a guess, mind you, is that this event happened because a man who held a particular viewpoint took action based on his views. Whether there could have been action taken to avoid these circumstances and whether or not the people in charge of that sort of thing dropped the ball really has nothing to do with being Politically Correct, unless of course you're implying that they shouldn't have let a Muslim into the military...
When that Muslim is proselytizing against regulations, when that Muslim gives a speech at what is suppose to be a medical review in support of suicide bombing, Yes. It's really not even a matter of being too PC, it's a matter of being reasonably intelligent. I have no problem with Muslims serving in the military. But the beliefs of Muslim fundamentalists are incompatible with US Military service or for that matter US citizenship or assimilation into the basic beliefs of Western culture.
I can't say I speak for the Military, the FBI, or the government like you can, but I can say that I sincerely doubt that this guy would've remained at his post if the higher ups had any inkling he'd do what he did (trust me, I'm just as confused as the rest of us that they didn't), and political correctness wouldn't come close to saving him from getting fired.
Hindsight Bias is always 20/20.
I didn't say that I spoke for anyone except for myself; nor am I oversimplifying things as you stated. We know numerous facts about this situation and in time, we'll learn more. My bet is that some people higher up in the food chain in the military take the blame for some people even higher up in the chain of command. That's just my opinion, YMMV, whatever.
The bottom line is though that this nut should have been booted out a long time ago before he had a chance to do damage to the men and women who serve this country. So the question is, why wasn't he?
Also consider this: The War Against Islamic Terrorism became the Global War on Terrorism and is now called the Overseas Contingency Operation. Why???
So before you say this and roll your eyes "It must be really great to oversimplify everything like that.", think everything through, even if the FBI and all isn't concerned with it, overly PC is and was a part of the circumstances at Fort Hood.
The Crusader said:
Yes, he should have been drummed out of the Army, but like I said before, that wouldn't have stopped him from committing a terrorist act. And I'll repeat myself again to stress that unless we make radical speech and radical internet DLs illegal, it's almost impossible to stop the lone terrorist from using legal means [in this case a pistol] to commit mass-murder.
For the sake of clarity, had Hassan been under surveillance because he regularly visited radical jihadi websites and then transferred money to questionable [terror front] recipients, we perhaps could have stopped him from constructing a bomb, as he could have been observed obtaining the materials necessary for such. IIRC, bomb making is illegal, but pistols usually aren't.
I didn't say that I spoke for anyone except for myself; nor am I oversimplifying things as you stated. We know numerous facts about this situation and in time, we'll learn more. My bet is that some people higher up in the food chain in the military take the blame for some people even higher up in the chain of command. That's just my opinion, YMMV, whatever.
The bottom line is though that this nut should have been booted out a long time ago before he had a chance to do damage to the men and women who serve this country. So the question is, why wasn't he?
Also consider this: The War Against Islamic Terrorism became the Global War on Terrorism and is now called the Overseas Contingency Operation. Why???
So before you say this and roll your eyes "It must be really great to oversimplify everything like that.", think everything through, even if the FBI and all isn't concerned with it, overly PC is and was a part of the circumstances at Fort Hood.
I still think you're mixing terms. As bassrique just said, there's really no way the powers that be could have stopped him from committing a terrorist act, at least not in a manner that would benefit the freedom of information that we all enjoy today. Where you draw the line on that particular issue, of course, is on an individual to individual basis.
Personally, I'm very against making any radical ideology illegal, because that presents a very slippery slope into closed-mindedness and promotes a kneejerk reaction that I can't see as anything other than unhealthy.
But, of course, this man was serving in the United States Military, so Uncle Sam owns him--thereby depriving him of certain rights us civilians get to enjoy (namely the right to publicly portray our beliefs and opinions-whatever they may be-without fear of endangering ourselves or our livelihood). Should he have been kicked out of the Army? Probably, but I don't have access to all the information I'd need to really say for sure. There is, after all, a big difference between believing something and killing a host of people.
I just have a hard time accepting that the only reason he wasn't thrown out on his ass was because of the Omnipotent Political Correctness Poltergeist who seems to rear his ugly head whenever a minority belief is allowed to flourish, whatever the consequences.
How is it part of the cause?
Prove with serious evidence that PC lead to the deaths of these soldiers. Furthermore, if political correctness was not as big of a factor would they still be alive?
Not being able to call someone a "terrorist" is not going to change a thing, we can call them anything we want and it will not change their purpose or their drive. The FBI admitted that they were watching Major Hasan because of his actions, but stated that it seriously looked like he was making a research paper and dismissed it for that fact, but is it P/C that made them unable to pull him and question him or investigate further? Or was that they seriously thought that his actions were benign? We have no way of knowing this.
Reiterating from earlier, I'm less concerned about the label he gets and more concerned about his motives and finding ways to identify them in others in the future before they are acted on.
Mike
Mike
I feel like I didn't really address this bit, and I do think it is a valuable point of discussion, so please bear with me.
As I see it, the changes in title have to do with marketing, and what some might see as our need for neverending warfare (I'm not trying to get inflammatory here, just framing a viewpoint.) A "war" against Islamic terror will end faster than a "war" against terror, which will still end faster than a "plan" for dealing with such a thing. You can't put a time limit on a plan, just ask the former U.S.S.R.
Mike v.s., once a blimp owner and proud user of the coveted big font, is now a supporter of the brain police??
Jest aside, where do you guys think the line is drawn between "off-axis thinking" and "NSA warning label?"
Not really. I guess I should have worded that better. It seems to me, given the information available, that there were enough signs pointing in a nonfriendly direction that this guy maybe should have been watched a little more closely. All I'm trying to say is that I hope we learn from those mistakes.Mike v.s., once a blimp owner and proud user of the coveted big font, is now a supporter of the brain police??
Jest aside, where do you guys think the line is drawn between "off-axis thinking" and "NSA warning label?"
As to drawing the line...I'm not sure.
Mike
