Fractal Audio Club

[jimfist]

I think the issue is that Fractal is a small company whose direction is in part shaped by its founder, who appears to be a tone-chasing guitarist. And there are many more guitarists than bassists. Line6 and Zoom are big companies with more resources.

Line 6 or Zoom will be better options for the foreseeable future if your main criterion is “more bass amp models.” I always recommend buying on the basis of what something does, not what a future firmware update could bring, especially when no promises have been made and there’s a clear track record.

Also, everyone has different needs. For me the big missing thing is global blocks. For someone else, I’m sure it’s something else.

I don't disagree at all with this, and I have used and currently use some these options (ZOOM, Atomic Amps, Line 6).
Clearly, the Fractal pedigree has tremendous value even with the short list of bass stuff.
It's like the hot girl who will date you on her terms only, but don't ever think she'll go to the prom with you. That I've accepted this reality still won't keep me from joining a b!tch session when I see one pop up. LOL. This is a "dead horse issue" for sure.

 

[mistermikev]

what a nice surprise - had no idea there was a fractal gang here. So... can i be initiated? what, do I start as a pledge, maybe have to get beat in? do I have to prove my loyalty with a drive by?

anywho, big fan of axefx have been using the 3 since late 2018. as mentioned they don't offer nearly the variety of bass amps, and I sometimes miss L6 for that reason... but the axe is by far the best quality of fx/amps/features I have found.

I round out my amp choices with an ada mb1, ampeg svt ii-p, and peavey tb raxx (the horror) wired into my rack. the mb1 is an especially nice pairing imo.

as dr b mentioned there are a LOT of amps that work really great for bass with proper ir and some tweaking.
I have thread at the axe fx forum with a boat load of presets setup using "unconventional" bass models in case anyone cares: so... whole bunch of bass presets... some tone matches... some unconventional bass amps...

demo of one I recently setup here - no trip to hollywood but I think it came out ok:
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overall pretty happy w the axe. I hope that someday cliff will have pitty on us poor bass players and add a model or two more... but if all else fails and the price of kempers keeps falling I might have to snag one someday!

 

[mistermikev]

I should add that IMO it has never been a problem getting subjectively "good tones" from Fractal Audio gear. There are a gazillion tools and options for endless experimentation and creativity, and Fractal produces first-class products. And yes, you can do really cool things with guitar amps. Again, that's not the issue. The general gripe, otherwise, simply has to do with the development of a more robust stable of bass amps and cabinets that have been widely used and are missing, that capture the essence of the sonic "flavor" of those bass amp rigs, and to have those rigs well-sussed-out as part of stock presets (rather than having to resort to 3rd parties for help).

It's a common list, and not very long. Some examples:
- Gallien Krueger amp into 4x10 Hartke
- Acoustic 360 rig (18" speaker) and/or 320 head w/406 2x15 cab (dr bonkers has that cab covered)
- SWR RedHead 2x10 or Workingman's combo
- Sunn 200S head 2x15 cabinet
- MarkBass Little Mark 2x10 cabinet
- Mesa Subway D800 (already some Subway cab IRs stock)
- Aguilar - pick 'em
- Trace Elliot - pick 'em
- Bergantino

That's a core representation that most bassists would find useful, and even HALF of that list would likely do the job.
We're talking about 6-8 amps/cabs for bassists, and this would put Fractal more in line with what other (many considered lesser) competitors offer. This also doesn't account for some excellent bass amps that are known, but outliers to the popular market, but that's just not a realistic expectation IMO.

this is a pretty compelling and well stated argument. I like fractal a lot, and I get it... we bass fractal players are few... but you hit the nail on the head there with the list (matches up with my wishlist almost verbatim) and the idea of "putting fractal in line with other modelers".

I think it's important to point out... "IN LINE" only in the sense of the limited scope of offering a consistent number of bass models that is on parr with others.
quad corex only offers 9 bass models but Line 6 helix offers 14. kemper somewhere around 30 factory (counted but not sure how many were repeats).

afa irs... this doesn't hit home w me. axefx3 gives me 2000 placeholders for irs and I've got a ton of dr bonkers stuff (absolute tops for me for bass), the celestion stuff, the bergantino/celestion stuff, valhallir, lancaster, 3sigma, redwirez and that is all in 500 slots.

the rest tho - could not agree more.

 

[Texan]

what a nice surprise - had no idea there was a fractal gang here. So... can i be initiated? what, do I start as a pledge, maybe have to get beat in? do I have to prove my loyalty with a drive by?

anywho, big fan of axefx have been using the 3 since late 2018. as mentioned they don't offer nearly the variety of bass amps, and I sometimes miss L6 for that reason... but the axe is by far the best quality of fx/amps/features I have found.

I round out my amp choices with an ada mb1, ampeg svt ii-p, and peavey tb raxx (the horror) wired into my rack. the mb1 is an especially nice pairing imo.

as dr b mentioned there are a LOT of amps that work really great for bass with proper ir and some tweaking.
I have thread at the axe fx forum with a boat load of presets setup using "unconventional" bass models in case anyone cares: so... whole bunch of bass presets... some tone matches... some unconventional bass amps...

demo of one I recently setup here - no trip to hollywood but I think it came out ok:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

overall pretty happy w the axe. I hope that someday cliff will have pitty on us poor bass players and add a model or two more... but if all else fails and the price of kempers keeps falling I might have to snag one someday!

Well done! Downloaded and a few minor tweaks on my FM3 and I’m loving the tones!

 

[mistermikev]

Well done! Downloaded and a few minor tweaks on my FM3 and I’m loving the tones!

I'm happy you've found them useful! did you have to remove amp blocks or was it more tone tweaks?

 

[Texan]

I'm happy you've found them useful! did you have to remove amp blocks or was it more tone tweaks?

I had to remove some blocks, some imported broken, so I have to repair and tweak a bit, but we familiar enough with the target amps I wanted that I knew exactly what to do. The SWR, Aguilar, Eden, GK and the Alembic were exactly what I wanted.

Many thanks, and if you tweak with us FM3 users in mind, message me, I’d like to be a Guinea pig for you.

 

[mistermikev]

I had to remove some blocks, some imported broken, so I have to repair and tweak a bit, but we familiar enough with the target amps I wanted that I knew exactly what to do. The SWR, Aguilar, Eden, GK and the Alembic were exactly what I wanted.

Many thanks, and if you tweak with us FM3 users in mind, message me, I’d like to be a Guinea pig for you.

right on... well very glad they worked out. Given a mere 500 presets... and having 80 set aside for my triaxis internal mem, and another 80 for my MB1... then my user guitar presets... and some factory stuff... I tend to try to always use two of everything so I can max the variance for all 8 scenes.

that said... fractool should allow one to open the preset as axefx3 and perhaps split the amp blocks into two presets pretty easily maybe save the amp as a full bock, then the cab as a full block... then just select those blocks in a new preset... or make two copies of the preset and just delete 1-4 for one and 5-8 for the other. just a thought in case others want to try and aren't as adventurous as you!!

 

[4 octave fun]

Greetings fellow fracti! Great to read your stories…or tales of woe! Had the fm3 for about two years now. Built, rebuilt, thrown away way too many presets before settling down. Actually used the box as a paperweight for a bit when I had too much. And yet. When you finally build a series of awesome sounding effects combinations through multiple scenes for a song-think Guy Pratt playing One Slip with Floyd… and you properly save each of them, then DAMN! With a single touch I am going from 5 effects to 6 different effects. I do not naturally have the patience for this but the results are worth while! A couple rules: 1. you can initially program through head phones, but final tweaks MUST be done with your amp or through a PA. 2. Watch your output levels across scenes and presets and adjust (Or the sound guy will kill you). 3. Active basses need a lot of “the lowering of the heat”. At least my Carvins needed to have the input box, and others, tweaked.

 

[jimfist]

Are we issuing membership numbers for the Fractal club? I posted a couple weeks on another thread (re: the FM9) that I recently got my invite to purchase the FM9 Turbo and pulled the trigger, so...I'm back after a 7+ year hiatus from using the AxeFxII, which was somewhere in the middle of its development cycle at the time IIRC.

All I can say is: wow, a metric crap ton of additions and upgrades have happened since then, and it's all good. The core improvements to the amp modeling, compressor, and cab block alone have made my FM9 experiences thus far hands-down much more enjoyable and fruitful than when I owned the AxeFxII. [ The secret weapon: the cab block's Preamp Page settings. That's some special sauce! ]

Of course, part of the misery was using the Behringer FC1010 midi pedal to control the AxeFxII. The programmable switches on the FM9 are incredibly flexible (especially when using the "Per Preset" feature). As is expected with Fractal products, there's a lot of time needed to dig through all of the features and possibilities, and I'm going at a fairly deliberate pace so as not to get overwhelmed or sidetracked. So far, so good.

Though I do regret that Fractal hasn't indulged us with more bass amps/cabs/stuff, I no longer feel as though the tirades carry as much weight. With the AxeFxII, I struggled to get bass tones that sounded and behaved with familiarity, based on my having used a full SVT Classic tube rig for many years. This was a fundamental sore spot for me. Things are different now, and I was able to dial in a worthy sounding (and feeling) SVT sound fairly easily. And the compressor block additions are really impressive. I never cared for the compressors in the AxeFxII, but now, different ballgame. Dialing in a good sounding bass comp is much, much easier.

Anyway, enough of me gushing.

 

[4 octave fun]

Is there a time to stop tweaking?
I have now removed-bypassed amp and cab blocks that I painstakingly built in November. When put through the PA they just went bleh. Covered the effects. And then…
I remembered that I didn’t buy the fm3 for its ampmodels, but the effects. I like the way my basses sound naked, then with a touch of flange, and old style phaser that the envelope filter builders search for, echo octave boxes when needed and the ability to go between them all with one touch. Whew. Had to express that out of my brain. Keep it in perspective. And now on to matching the Tones of Jeff Beck’s version of Cause We’ve Ended As Lovers

 

[SteveFromBerlin]

FM3 Owner here. Still, I think the company would benefit greatly if they included at least 2-3 more common bass amps. E.g. Gallien Krueger, Acoustic, Trace Elliot. I mean, when a potential buyer weighs up which modeler to buy, he will find at least 10-15 models with Line6. As a result, they're much more likely to go for it, which is a shame since the modeling in the Fractal is so good.

 

[mastermachetier]

Been gigging using the fx on the fm3 . In originally got it for guitar been thinking about picking up an hxstomp for bass though. The effects seem more practical for bass and the size.

 

[dr bonkers]

Been gigging using the fx on the fm3 . In originally got it for guitar been thinking about picking up an hxstomp for bass though. The effects seem more practical for bass and the size.View attachment 5007257

One thing to know about the L6 stuff versus Fractal FX wise.

In the Fractal, most of of the modulation, pitch, and delay fx have an adjustable low and high cut, so that the FX don't eat up your low end.

As far as I know, L6 has yet to implement this most basic fx feature. I sold my Helix Floor because of that.

 

[Veldar]

Everytime I check a fractal bass thread it's still the same problem, no bass amps

 

[jimfist]

One thing to know about the L6 stuff versus Fractal FX wise.

In the Fractal, most of of the modulation, pitch, and delay fx have an adjustable low and high cut, so that the FX don't eat up your low end.

As far as I know, L6 has yet to implement this most basic fx feature. I sold my Helix Floor because of that.

Exactly this. Was working on a chorus sound the other day and increasing the low-cut frequency is a must-have feature IMO. Fractal stuff is a good news/bad news thing, in that there are SO MANY parameters. Great if you know how and why you need them, but can be overwhelming for inexperienced users.

Having done my share of mixing, I've always had a deep appreciation for the depth of technical tools Fractal provides. For those who care to learn, you can embark on true "master class" techniques that simply aren't accommodated on most multi-fx modelers.

 

[jimfist]

Everytime I check a fractal bass thread it's still the same problem, no bass amps

Yup. It's a drag that bassists have to work a little harder to coax a specific sound or effect out of Fractal stuff...BUT...cabinet IRs play a big part in the overall tone (if you use them), and thankfully that market is pretty strong for alternative bass cab IRs at very reasonable cost.

Outside of bass amp selection, I think the other effects and processing blocks have improved noticeably over the years. I'm finding the FM9 Turbo to be a remarkably comprehensive pedal for my bass needs. My biggest challenge now is option paralysis, and trying to see how much I can fit into a single "kitchen sink" preset with custom footswitching.

 

[dr bonkers]

Everytime I check a fractal bass thread it's still the same problem, no bass amps

All the guitar amps are effective bass amps when paired with a compatible bass cab. Just ignore the name of the model. The topography of many bass and guitar amps are similar if not identical. Fractal also gives you the ability to swap out tone stacks, which gives you more possibilities than any of the L6 or QC named bass models- which also lack the ability to do tone stack swaps.

Several IR producers give presets in their packs for that exact reason of opening up people's ears to those possibilities.

 

[mastermachetier]

One thing to know about the L6 stuff versus Fractal FX wise.

In the Fractal, most of of the modulation, pitch, and delay fx have an adjustable low and high cut, so that the FX don't eat up your low end.

As far as I know, L6 has yet to implement this most basic fx feature. I sold my Helix Floor because of that.

thats really good to know! The biggest reason I was looking at the stomp was the size . Its a bear to carry the fractal around, but its time based effects and modulation are class leading for sure.

Also while I have your attention . I have been trying to find the bag end 15 IRs but noone seems to make one I'd love to be able to have my cab setup in modeling haha

 

[dr bonkers]

Also while I have your attention . I have been trying to find the bag end 15 IRs but noone seems to make one I'd love to be able to have my cab setup in modeling haha

No touring house or individual ever allowed me to rent one.

Once I have the new recording space completed in Arizona, if anyone wants to let me borrow their cab for a few days, I would be glad to shoot IR files of it.

 

[Texan]

I've been gigging my FM3 and absolutely love it. Playing everything from REO Speed Wagon to Motley Crue and it nails the tones I need. Don't afraid of the FM3 for bass.