Fractal Audio Club

[51rhc]

Thats the Model that I use for 90% or our set list, the Warm channel. I still have to figure out how to kick on the fat switch. Since I got the FM3, I've only had about an hour to spend learning it. I've been so busy with work and doing the backing tracks for our new sets, its had to take a back seat. Hopefully tonight and tomorrow I can spend some time with it.

The models are absolutely amazing, but what I'm most impressed with is the endless switching layouts that you can customize. I'm so glad I went with Fractal over a Helix.

The FAT switch in located in the preamp tab of the amp block.

 

[Les Fret]

How much bass amp and cab models does the Axe fx III have and which ones exactly?

I have the Axe fx II and I think the models are: Mesa, Ampeg VST, FAS bass and an Orange amp if I am not mistaken. I think 5 bass cabs or so. Not sure if the Axe III has other models that are not in the II?

 

[Texan]

How much bass amp and cab models does the Axe fx III have and which ones exactly?

I have the Axe fx II and I think the models are: Mesa, Ampeg VST, FAS bass and an Orange amp if I am not mistaken. I think 5 bass cabs or so. Not sure if the Axe III has other models that are not in the II?

I think it’s the same in the FM3, but it’s the Austin Buddy bass pack that makes the difference. I’m pretty sure it’s available for the axe3.

 

[jimfist]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

... paging @dr bonkers ...

The AxeFxIII, FM3 and FM9 Turbo have these dedicated bass amps: 2 versions of SVT, 2 Versions of Mesa 400, Ampeg Portaflex, Orange AD200B, and FAS Bass.

The legacy bass cabinet IRs from the AxeFxII/AX8 are also included on the AxeFXIII/FM3/FM9, of which there are 8 total.

It's something of a chore to pore over the vast list of hundreds of guitar cabinets to find the small number additional bass cabinets recently added. They've broken down a list of the legacy bass cabs, but no such list for the newer entries for AFXIII/FM3/FM9.

Here's what I found (there may be more):
Dr. Bonkers
- SWR Workingman's 12" combo: 1x12 WMAN 160+PZM
- Trace Elliot 15": 1x15 TRAEL 441+PZM
- Acoustic 406 2x15": 2x15 AC406 RE20+PZM
- Gallien-Krueger 410RBH 4x10+Tweeter: 4x10 GeekRB D12+PZM

Ownhammer
- Ampeg SVT-210AV:

2x10 AMPG AVT-10 57 OH
2x10 AMPG AVT-10 121 OH
2x10 AMPG AVT-10 SUB OH
2x10 AMPG AVT-10 U70 OH
​

ML Sound Lab
- Ampeg SVT 410:

4x10 SV Bass 57 B1 ML
4x10 SV Bass 121 B1 ML
4x10 SV Bass 421 B1 ML
4x10 SV Bass 906 B1 ML​

- Mesa Boogie Standard PowerHouse PH 1000

4x10+15+T USA Bass 57 A1 ML
4x10+15+T USA Bass 121 A1 ML
4x10+15+T USA Bass 160 E1 ML
4x10+15+T USA Bass 421 A1 ML​

Fractal Audio
- Ampeg SVT-410HE:

4x10 SV Bass HE 88 A
4x10 SV Bass HE 88 B
4x10 SV Bass HE 88 C
4x10 SV Bass HE 88 D
4x10 SV Bass HE 88 Tweeter
4x10 SV Bass HE 313 A
4x10 SV Bass HE 313 B
​

 

[Les Fret]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

... paging @dr bonkers ...

The AxeFxIII, FM3 and FM9 Turbo have these dedicated bass amps: 2 versions of SVT, 2 Versions of Mesa 400, Ampeg Portaflex, Orange AD200B, and FAS Bass.

The legacy bass cabinet IRs from the AxeFxII/AX8 are also included on the AxeFXIII/FM3/FM9, of which there are 8 total.

It's something of a chore to pore over the vast list of hundreds of guitar cabinets to find the small number additional bass cabinets recently added. They've broken down a list of the legacy bass cabs, but no such list for the newer entries for AFXIII/FM3/FM9.

Here's what I found (there may be more):
Dr. Bonkers
- SWR Workingman's 12" combo: 1x12 WMAN 160+PZM
- Trace Elliot 15": 1x15 TRAEL 441+PZM
- Acoustic 406 2x15": 2x15 AC406 RE20+PZM
- Gallien-Krueger 410RBH 4x10+Tweeter: 4x10 GeekRB D12+PZM

Ownhammer
- Ampeg SVT-210AV:

2x10 AMPG AVT-10 57 OH
2x10 AMPG AVT-10 121 OH
2x10 AMPG AVT-10 SUB OH
2x10 AMPG AVT-10 U70 OH
​

ML Sound Lab
- Ampeg SVT 410:

4x10 SV Bass 57 B1 ML
4x10 SV Bass 121 B1 ML
4x10 SV Bass 421 B1 ML
4x10 SV Bass 906 B1 ML​

- Mesa Boogie Standard PowerHouse PH 1000

4x10+15+T USA Bass 57 A1 ML
4x10+15+T USA Bass 121 A1 ML
4x10+15+T USA Bass 160 E1 ML
4x10+15+T USA Bass 421 A1 ML​

Fractal Audio
- Ampeg SVT-410HE:

4x10 SV Bass HE 88 A
4x10 SV Bass HE 88 B
4x10 SV Bass HE 88 C
4x10 SV Bass HE 88 D
4x10 SV Bass HE 88 Tweeter
4x10 SV Bass HE 313 A
4x10 SV Bass HE 313 B
​

Ok thanks! indeed very little bass amps in the Axe fx, especially if you compare it with the hundreds of guitar amps. Bass stuff is not on their priority list.

Think they only added SVT2 and the Portaflex since the III, these are not in the II. But I use the Brainworks plugin for the B15 sound, great plugin.

Not sure if the Orange 200 is in the II. Have to check that.

 

[jimfist]

Not sure if the Orange 200 is in the II. Have to check that

I believe the Orange bass amp was added with the Mesa 400 for the AxeFxII.

I've concluded that Fractal only accommodates bassists begrudgingly, kicking and screaming the whole way. Perhaps justifiably, they probably don't want to burn resources on bass amps/cabs/pedals that they aren’t passionate about, that may not ( in their opinion ) get them a worthy financial return. I disagree.

However, Fractal will split hairs over various Marshall, Mesa, et al amp and cabinet versions. There are more modeled versions of some individual amps than there are TOTAL bass amps.

In any event, I'm on the FM9 waitlist, and may likely pull the trigger when the time comes. Much of this has to do with the inclusion of 3rd party IR providers, like @dr bonkers , which I think are an impotant inclusion.

As a bassist, it's well and good to be thought of as a "support" instrument. There's no reason we bassists shouldn't be able to do so with some sonic flair and tones that have character. JMHO

 

[Les Fret]

In any event, I'm on the FM9 waitlist, and may likely pull the trigger when the time comes. Much of this has to do with the inclusion of 3rd party IR providers, like @dr bonkers , which I think are an impotant inclusion.

I was on the European waiting list for an FM9 too. Thought it would last very long, so I bought a GT1000 Core. Then three weeks after that they mailed that I could order the FM9. I passed for now since I think the FM9 is a bit too expensive, and I first want to enjoy my GT1000 (that I also like, even like the bass amps in there more than the Fractal ones) and I still have my Axe fx II. Maybe I will jump in next year.

 

[dr bonkers]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

... paging @dr bonkers ...

The AxeFxIII, FM3 and FM9 Turbo have these dedicated bass amps: 2 versions of SVT, 2 Versions of Mesa 400, Ampeg Portaflex, Orange AD200B, and FAS Bass.

The legacy bass cabinet IRs from the AxeFxII/AX8 are also included on the AxeFXIII/FM3/FM9, of which there are 8 total.

It's something of a chore to pore over the vast list of hundreds of guitar cabinets to find the small number additional bass cabinets recently added. They've broken down a list of the legacy bass cabs, but no such list for the newer entries for AFXIII/FM3/FM9.

Here's what I found (there may be more):
Dr. Bonkers
- SWR Workingman's 12" combo: 1x12 WMAN 160+PZM
- Trace Elliot 15": 1x15 TRAEL 441+PZM
- Acoustic 406 2x15": 2x15 AC406 RE20+PZM
- Gallien-Krueger 410RBH 4x10+Tweeter: 4x10 GeekRB D12+PZM

Ownhammer
- Ampeg SVT-210AV:

2x10 AMPG AVT-10 57 OH
2x10 AMPG AVT-10 121 OH
2x10 AMPG AVT-10 SUB OH
2x10 AMPG AVT-10 U70 OH
​

ML Sound Lab
- Ampeg SVT 410:

4x10 SV Bass 57 B1 ML
4x10 SV Bass 121 B1 ML
4x10 SV Bass 421 B1 ML
4x10 SV Bass 906 B1 ML​

- Mesa Boogie Standard PowerHouse PH 1000

4x10+15+T USA Bass 57 A1 ML
4x10+15+T USA Bass 121 A1 ML
4x10+15+T USA Bass 160 E1 ML
4x10+15+T USA Bass 421 A1 ML​

Fractal Audio
- Ampeg SVT-410HE:

4x10 SV Bass HE 88 A
4x10 SV Bass HE 88 B
4x10 SV Bass HE 88 C
4x10 SV Bass HE 88 D
4x10 SV Bass HE 88 Tweeter
4x10 SV Bass HE 313 A
4x10 SV Bass HE 313 B
​

Thanks for the shout out!

I know it's not quite a popular view, but I've found most of the guitar amps become pretty cool bass amps if paired with a simpatico bass cab.

I have a whole thread about it in the bass section of the Fractal forum complete with free preset.

I'm thinking that I should update that thread because I haven't done so in a bit.

 

[JES]

I think people have different relationships to modelling amps.

Some people want presets, lots of them. For instance, if you're playing in a cover band and want to nail lots of tones quickly.
Some people want components, lots of them. to feel like they have "every" pedal.
Some people want flexibility and control, lots of it, to exceed what's possible on a pedalboard.

For presets and components, Zoom and Line 6 clearly are the best for bassists right now, though the Cooper Carter Fractal bundle seems pretty good. (I bought it -- turned out not to be what I was seeking at all but he nails lots of great bass tones).

What the FM9 delivers is this: everything is as "good" at what it does as possible, and the flexibility is incredible and far beyond other modellers. You can program each component, each amp and distortion comes with extra EQ, and you can create incredibly complex routings. Then you can create your own performance layout. Technically, I'd say there are more options for bassists, but you have to know more coming in about how stuff works, and you have to know more about what you want to do or be willing to put in the time experimenting.

 

[jimfist]

I should add that IMO it has never been a problem getting subjectively "good tones" from Fractal Audio gear. There are a gazillion tools and options for endless experimentation and creativity, and Fractal produces first-class products. And yes, you can do really cool things with guitar amps. Again, that's not the issue. The general gripe, otherwise, simply has to do with the development of a more robust stable of bass amps and cabinets that have been widely used and are missing, that capture the essence of the sonic "flavor" of those bass amp rigs, and to have those rigs well-sussed-out as part of stock presets (rather than having to resort to 3rd parties for help).

It's a common list, and not very long. Some examples:
- Gallien Krueger amp into 4x10 Hartke
- Acoustic 360 rig (18" speaker) and/or 320 head w/406 2x15 cab (dr bonkers has that cab covered)
- SWR RedHead 2x10 or Workingman's combo
- Sunn 200S head 2x15 cabinet
- MarkBass Little Mark 2x10 cabinet
- Mesa Subway D800 (already some Subway cab IRs stock)
- Aguilar - pick 'em
- Trace Elliot - pick 'em
- Bergantino

That's a core representation that most bassists would find useful, and even HALF of that list would likely do the job.
We're talking about 6-8 amps/cabs for bassists, and this would put Fractal more in line with what other (many considered lesser) competitors offer. This also doesn't account for some excellent bass amps that are known, but outliers to the popular market, but that's just not a realistic expectation IMO.

 

[dr bonkers]

I should add that IMO it has never been a problem getting subjectively "good tones" from Fractal Audio gear. There are a gazillion tools and options for endless experimentation and creativity, and Fractal produces first-class products. And yes, you can do really cool things with guitar amps. Again, that's not the issue. The general gripe, otherwise, simply has to do with the development of a more robust stable of bass amps and cabinets that have been widely used and are missing, that capture the essence of the sonic "flavor" of those bass amp rigs, and to have those rigs well-sussed-out as part of stock presets (rather than having to resort to 3rd parties for help).

It's a common list, and not very long. Some examples:
- Gallien Krueger amp into 4x10 Hartke
- Acoustic 360 rig (18" speaker) and/or 320 head w/406 2x15 cab (dr bonkers has that cab covered)
- SWR RedHead 2x10 or Workingman's combo
- Sunn 200S head 2x15 cabinet
- MarkBass Little Mark 2x10 cabinet
- Mesa Subway D800 (already some Subway cab IRs stock)
- Aguilar - pick 'em
- Trace Elliot - pick 'em
- Bergantino

That's a core representation that most bassists would find useful, and even HALF of that list would likely do the job.
We're talking about 6-8 amps/cabs for bassists, and this would put Fractal more in line with what other (many considered lesser) competitors offer. This also doesn't account for some excellent bass amps that are known, but outliers to the popular market, but that's just not a realistic expectation IMO.

Most of those cabs are on my site now.

 

[jimfist]

Most of those cabs are on my site now.

Yes, I was just there looking....good stuff! As mentioned before, the selection of really good bass IRs stands to make the process quite a bit easier than when I last used my AFXII in 2015 (LOL). Lot of great changes since then, and I'm hoping things work out so that the FM9 joins the family.

 

[Les Fret]

I should add that IMO it has never been a problem getting subjectively "good tones" from Fractal Audio gear. There are a gazillion tools and options for endless experimentation and creativity, and Fractal produces first-class products. And yes, you can do really cool things with guitar amps. Again, that's not the issue. The general gripe, otherwise, simply has to do with the development of a more robust stable of bass amps and cabinets that have been widely used and are missing, that capture the essence of the sonic "flavor" of those bass amp rigs, and to have those rigs well-sussed-out as part of stock presets (rather than having to resort to 3rd parties for help).

It's a common list, and not very long. Some examples:
- Gallien Krueger amp into 4x10 Hartke
- Acoustic 360 rig (18" speaker) and/or 320 head w/406 2x15 cab (dr bonkers has that cab covered)
- SWR RedHead 2x10 or Workingman's combo
- Sunn 200S head 2x15 cabinet
- MarkBass Little Mark 2x10 cabinet
- Mesa Subway D800 (already some Subway cab IRs stock)
- Aguilar - pick 'em
- Trace Elliot - pick 'em
- Bergantino

That's a core representation that most bassists would find useful, and even HALF of that list would likely do the job.
We're talking about 6-8 amps/cabs for bassists, and this would put Fractal more in line with what other (many considered lesser) competitors offer. This also doesn't account for some excellent bass amps that are known, but outliers to the popular market, but that's just not a realistic expectation IMO.

Can’t agree more. Excellent post. Just don’t understand why Fractal doesn’t do more for bass players. Not sure what the philosophy is behind that. Maybe there are no bass players working at Fractal?

 

[Texan]

Before buying my FM3 I emailed Fractal about models for bassists. They suggested the Austin Buddy bass pack, which they helped with the development of. Below was the rest of the response, which made me take the dive to the FM3, and I’m loving it.


“We add new amp models all the time. One never knows what could come next. But there's much more to this answer.

Models aside, our products have great capabilities for bass players and more flexibility and options tone than the number of bass amp "models" might make you think. For example, by eliminating all distortion and using our compressor and EQ blocks, you get a clean bass "amp" with tonal flexibility and control that exceeds many classic analog options. On the other hand, if you want a distorted tone, our drive pedals (including "Blackglass 7k") and amps (that can also be "modded") provide a palette of tones that's even more flexible than the static sounds of profiles or captures.

I'd like to answer your follow-up questions, but first I have a semi-random question.

What kind of music do you like? I ask because I just recently helped put together Fractal Audio bass rigs for Danny Miranda (Blue Oyster Cult, Queen) and Tom Hamilton (Aerosmith). This went amazingly well and resulted in some of the highest praise I've heard from bass world. Would it be interesting to you if I asked for some statements from those guys or their techs/engineers?

I've previously also worked on Fractal Audio bass rigs with Rush, Def Lep, Metallica, Darryl Jones, Taylor Swift band, Dave Matthews, Nolly (Periphery, etc.), and many others.”

 

[dr bonkers]

Before buying my FM3 I emailed Fractal about models for bassists. They suggested the Austin Buddy bass pack, which they helped with the development of. Below was the rest of the response, which made me take the dive to the FM3, and I’m loving it.


“We add new amp models all the time. One never knows what could come next. But there's much more to this answer.

Models aside, our products have great capabilities for bass players and more flexibility and options tone than the number of bass amp "models" might make you think. For example, by eliminating all distortion and using our compressor and EQ blocks, you get a clean bass "amp" with tonal flexibility and control that exceeds many classic analog options. On the other hand, if you want a distorted tone, our drive pedals (including "Blackglass 7k") and amps (that can also be "modded") provide a palette of tones that's even more flexible than the static sounds of profiles or captures.

I'd like to answer your follow-up questions, but first I have a semi-random question.

What kind of music do you like? I ask because I just recently helped put together Fractal Audio bass rigs for Danny Miranda (Blue Oyster Cult, Queen) and Tom Hamilton (Aerosmith). This went amazingly well and resulted in some of the highest praise I've heard from bass world. Would it be interesting to you if I asked for some statements from those guys or their techs/engineers?

I've previously also worked on Fractal Audio bass rigs with Rush, Def Lep, Metallica, Darryl Jones, Taylor Swift band, Dave Matthews, Nolly (Periphery, etc.), and many others.”

What they didn't disclose is which pro rigs that I had a hand in furnishing cabs for the players.

 

[Texan]

What they didn't disclose is which pro rigs that I had a hand in furnishing cabs for the players.

I asked them if they could share the settings and specifics, but they declined.

would you be able to share anything?

 

[dr bonkers]

I asked them if they could share the settings and specifics, but they declined.

would you be able to share anything?

Unfortunately, I don't have clearance from any of the artists to disclose which cab packs never mind which IR mixes that are in those cab packs are being utilized.

 

[Les Fret]

Before buying my FM3 I emailed Fractal about models for bassists. They suggested the Austin Buddy bass pack, which they helped with the development of. Below was the rest of the response, which made me take the dive to the FM3, and I’m loving it.


“We add new amp models all the time. One never knows what could come next. But there's much more to this answer.

Models aside, our products have great capabilities for bass players and more flexibility and options tone than the number of bass amp "models" might make you think. For example, by eliminating all distortion and using our compressor and EQ blocks, you get a clean bass "amp" with tonal flexibility and control that exceeds many classic analog options. On the other hand, if you want a distorted tone, our drive pedals (including "Blackglass 7k") and amps (that can also be "modded") provide a palette of tones that's even more flexible than the static sounds of profiles or captures.

I'd like to answer your follow-up questions, but first I have a semi-random question.

What kind of music do you like? I ask because I just recently helped put together Fractal Audio bass rigs for Danny Miranda (Blue Oyster Cult, Queen) and Tom Hamilton (Aerosmith). This went amazingly well and resulted in some of the highest praise I've heard from bass world. Would it be interesting to you if I asked for some statements from those guys or their techs/engineers?

I've previously also worked on Fractal Audio bass rigs with Rush, Def Lep, Metallica, Darryl Jones, Taylor Swift band, Dave Matthews, Nolly (Periphery, etc.), and many others.”

Thanks for sharing! This is all true of course and you can get good bass tones out of any amp model in the Axe fx or any other modeler for that matter. But that still doesn’t explain why they don’t add more bass stuff while in every update they add more guitar amps. There are maybe more than 300 guitar amps models and only 6 bass models or so. Every little modded variation of guitar amps is included while for bass they left out the main models. Bass players have been asking for more bass stuff for years on the Fractal forum. That makes bass players feel left out and that’s why they look for other cheaper modelers that have more bass stuff.

 

[jimfist]

I'm in total agreement that the latest Fractal products have "great capabilities for bass players", and I'm hoping to see what it is all about. Still, the lack of bass "stuff" is a wet blanket IMHO. Fractal's competition offers more options. It would be nice to see them add a couple bass amps.

below was the rest of the response, which made me take the dive to the FM3, and I’m loving it.

“We add new (guitar) amp models all the time. One never knows what could come next (but chances are it won't be a bass amp). But there's much more to this answer. (my edits)

Models aside, our products have great capabilities for bass players and more flexibility and options tone than the number of bass amp "models" might make you think.

It's really very simple, and for me, the long answer they give is impressive, but off the mark.

 

[JES]

I think the issue is that Fractal is a small company whose direction is in part shaped by its founder, who appears to be a tone-chasing guitarist. And there are many more guitarists than bassists. Line6 and Zoom are big companies with more resources.

Line 6 or Zoom will be better options for the foreseeable future if your main criterion is “more bass amp models.” I always recommend buying on the basis of what something does, not what a future firmware update could bring, especially when no promises have been made and there’s a clear track record.

Also, everyone has different needs. For me the big missing thing is global blocks. For someone else, I’m sure it’s something else.