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Fractal Audio FX8
- Thread starter prockenklang
- Start date
Congrats! Fractal makes world-class gear, and with top notch product support, not to mention regular firmware updates which expand and improve upon the capabilities of their products. the FX8 is no exception, I'm sure. I've got an AxeFxII that is being loaned to a guitarist right now. Been a fan of Fractal products for many years now. Can't say enough good about it. Enjoy.
My guitar player has an older unit, and it never ceases to amaze me how good they sound. I sometimes use the bass amp models when I record at his studio, amazing device. Congrats.
Never got my hands on any Fractal gear yet...I'm a pedal guy but from the sound of things, this Fractal may be the first multi that violates the JimmyM Law Of The Multi, where 3-4 effects are pretty decent, 3-4 are passable in an emergency, and the rest suck. Seen some real pedal geeks switch over to it...I also know of a couple Axe-FX users who switched back to pedals, but would like to give their stuff a spin and see for myself.
But until then, I'll just ask some questions...
1. I presume it's instantaneous switching between presets with no momentary dropouts, right? What about when switching banks? Believe it or not, the best multi I ever used for switching between patches is the Zoom B2. I'm kind of meh on its overall sound quality, but it would switch between patches instantly.
2. Are the sounds really up to snuff with the actual pedals it emulates?
3. Can it imitate an Animato or other quirky pedals like the Carbon Copy delay? And can you do wacky things like force delays into self-oscillation or weird dubstep stuff or whammy pedal-style stuff with an expression pedal?
But until then, I'll just ask some questions...
1. I presume it's instantaneous switching between presets with no momentary dropouts, right? What about when switching banks? Believe it or not, the best multi I ever used for switching between patches is the Zoom B2. I'm kind of meh on its overall sound quality, but it would switch between patches instantly.
2. Are the sounds really up to snuff with the actual pedals it emulates?
3. Can it imitate an Animato or other quirky pedals like the Carbon Copy delay? And can you do wacky things like force delays into self-oscillation or weird dubstep stuff or whammy pedal-style stuff with an expression pedal?
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You'd have to dig into the way Fractal has implemented "Scenes" into the operation of the FX8. You program up to 8 virtual (stomps) in a preset, and then you program "Scenes" within that preset which remember the engaged/bypass state of each of those stomps. In addition, many of the virtual stomps have a selectable "X/Y" state (IOW, use one stomp iteration, program X state for one sound, Y state for another sound). X/Y states are also remembered when programmed into Scenes. Another powerful advanced feature is the 2 "Scene Controllers". You assign, for example, Scene controller 1 to Chorus Depth, and set it to 10% in Scene 1, 30% in Scene 2, 50% in scene 3, and so on. Assign similarly Controller 2 to another parameter and set to taste on a per-scene basis.
The idea here is that you load up a preset with as much stuff as you can use, and then use Scenes to make bulk changes to that virtual stomp board. You can mix pedal switches to be used for Scenes or traditional Stompbox on/off (top row 4 scenes, bottom row 4 stomps). This will give you the fastest, closest to seamless changes to your sounds. Think of Scenes as presets within presets.
If you find that you need to change presets, the speed at which the change happens has to do with exactly what is loaded in your presets. It can range from fast to slightly boggy if you're using high resolution dense reverbs and other things that eat up cpu processing. YMMV with changing presets. For the vast majority of players, Scenes/stomp switching is more than adequate, with preset switching reserved for when you have a break during a song or between songs if you absolutely need gapless sound changes, and if you have a LOT going on with sound/fx changes.
Some yes, absolutely, some perhaps not. No multi-fx box is going to nail every flavor of ear-candy. The good news is that Fractal is committed to improving the realism of their fx algorithms, as well as adding to the selection of emulated types of fx. Those adept at editing sounds can do amazing things thanks to the inclusion of many advanced parameters not found on most multi-fx boxes. For detailed info on effects parameters, refer to the AxeFxII owner's manual since the FX8 is essentially pulling the same algorithms from the AFxII.
Depends on the device you want to imitate. See above. The Animato is so specific that it may be evasive, but stuff like the Carbon Copy, or self-oscillating old-school tape delays are not a problem. Where Fractal Audio is unrivaled is in their implementation of control modifiers so you can do some very, very complex real-time effects with expression pedals, or using things like pitch/envelope/ADSR/sequencer modifiers to get some really incredible effects. If that's your bag, then Fractal is THE BEST. The only thing I've seen that rivals the modifier section of the AxeFx is the TC Electronic G-Force and Fireworx. Seriously advanced, brain-popping stuff can be done there.
Bathroom reading:
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Subbing. I'm dying to know which effects are good on bass, and which are weaker. I always got a sense that the axefx was more guitar oriented.
Definitely, and I don't get why. OK, so they outnumber us. That part I get. But how hard would it be to make a multi that's got good distortion effects for bass, too? For a couple years, all they had for the Axe-FX was an SVT emulator. True, that should be enough for anyone
but I really get the impression that Fractal's not interested in drawing in bass players.
Bumping for further impressions from the OP or other FX8 users.
I've just recently begun to research this unit and the Line 6 Helix as I'm giving serious consideration to an all-inclusive effects system. I don't really need amp/cab sims and if I decided that I did want that I'd still hold out until both the Helix and upcoming Fractal AX8 start to make the rounds. I'm curious about how particular effects in this unit stack up with some of the tested analogue gear that I've used and come to love. I've never had much success at all with things like filters, octavers etc. Even with some of the Eventide and Strymon stuff the filters were pretty horrible imo. In the covers band that I'm playing with I need to be able to play some synth-like passages from time to time and use filters and an octaver a good deal. I've already heard some outstanding samples of what can be done with some of the drive and modulation settings with bass, and the ability to run patches in parallel and the deep eq'ing available has me convinced that most "bread and butter" effects would be totally up to snuff. Any further thoughts/experiences with things like pitch shifting, filters, trems etc. with bass would be greatly appreciated.
I've just recently begun to research this unit and the Line 6 Helix as I'm giving serious consideration to an all-inclusive effects system. I don't really need amp/cab sims and if I decided that I did want that I'd still hold out until both the Helix and upcoming Fractal AX8 start to make the rounds. I'm curious about how particular effects in this unit stack up with some of the tested analogue gear that I've used and come to love. I've never had much success at all with things like filters, octavers etc. Even with some of the Eventide and Strymon stuff the filters were pretty horrible imo. In the covers band that I'm playing with I need to be able to play some synth-like passages from time to time and use filters and an octaver a good deal. I've already heard some outstanding samples of what can be done with some of the drive and modulation settings with bass, and the ability to run patches in parallel and the deep eq'ing available has me convinced that most "bread and butter" effects would be totally up to snuff. Any further thoughts/experiences with things like pitch shifting, filters, trems etc. with bass would be greatly appreciated.
@godblender: I've had some success with the H9 filter. I'm sure in a studio setting it's not even close to my Moog or Xerograph. But at volume through a bass amp with fuzz in front of it, it is a roaring, cruel buzzsaw of a beast. I think I posted the settings in the H9 settings thread or in the dropbox folder. I can also get a good dub sound with it (though I want to experiment with bandpass to get a true "Lasswell sound").
I'm subbing to this thread. I'm on the FX-8 waitlist, but I've also preordered a Line 6 Helix. Having come from a board full of Strymon and Eventide boxes, I know the Fractal multi is going to be beyond world-class! Not going to kid you guys, though, I'm really leaning towards the Helix. Why? When I heard about the FX-8, I wasn't nearly as interested in the modeling aspect as I am now. And, admittedly, I'm just totally digging the Helix UI! What I'm hoping is that the Helix is good enough that the guys at Fractal will take some design cues from the Helix and incorporate them into the AX-8! That would probably be game over!
I am really looking forward to some FX-8 bass demos! Let's get 'em goin', fellers....
I am really looking forward to some FX-8 bass demos! Let's get 'em goin', fellers....
I think it's definitely a wait and see thing with this unit and the Helix. GAS aside, I'm guessing there will be others entering this field, and it looks like a really big step up for multi effects. Plus there are things being ironed out in the FX-8 and I'll bet that will be an issue for Line6 as well (though they are a bigger company so maybe will catch more at alpha and beta stages).
So far over on the Fractal Audio board, all I've gotten is someone sending me a list of effects that are modelled in the FX-8. Thanks, I can read manuals. I'm looking for experience.
So far over on the Fractal Audio board, all I've gotten is someone sending me a list of effects that are modelled in the FX-8. Thanks, I can read manuals. I'm looking for experience.
What kind of information are you looking for with the FX8? I don't own one, but am familiar with the effects algorithms (no amp/cab models, no synth algorithm) and design, coming from the AxeFxII. Fire away.
[Edit: just saw your post over on the FX8 Fractal forum. I'll answer what I can.]
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@ JES: I don't own the FX8, but the algorithms are purported to be the same as the AxeFXII, so with that in mind...
I've not used the H9, but have owned or auditioned a lot of pitch shifters and reverbs. IMO, the reverbs are top notch, especially in High Res mode. Pitch shifting, no matter what unit is being discussed, always seems to be a very individual thing in terms of preference. I've owned the TC Electronic G-Force, Digitech Whammy, and EHX Pitch Fork. IMO the pitch shifting is excellent by comparison, especially if you want shifting with minimal shifted tone coloration, which is something all of the aforementioned units suffer from IMO. Personally, I've had to purposely filter/distort the pitch shifted tone(s) in order to make them less pristine sounding so that they'll better emulate the pitch shifted tones I'd become accustomed to. I don't view this as a bad thing - the accuracy of the tone - but rather something to be aware of. IMO it is better to have this and not need it (or need to alter it) than vice versa.
The answer: IMO maybe. If you're a overdrive/distortion/fuzz junkie and you know the circuitry that makes a pedal yield it's own specific flavor of distortion, then chances are you'll be able to edit the Drive parameters to your liking using an existing Drive Type as a starting point. And because you can do parallel routing, this makes blending the wet/dry mix a lot less hassle. True, there aren't any dedicated Bass guitar overdrive boxes modeled, but that doesn't mean they won't sound good - or cannot be made to sound good - on bass guitar. You might just need to tweak some of the parameters (low/hi pass filters, EQ, etc.) to get them closer to where you want them. I've used the Rat drive many times and find it to be a relatively easy adjustment for bass. Realistically, it is difficult for a multi-fx device to absolutely nail down every flavor of "popular" overdrive/fuzz pedal. The list is relatively comprehensive IMO, but I'm not the biggest bass distortion junkie out there either. YMMV, but as with everything Fractal, the quality of these drive effects is very good IMO.
IMO, yes. And this is where I wish the synth block would be brought into the FX8. The filters are very good, but not designed "as is" to be akin to a "synth filter". You would have to attach a controller (Envelope/Pitch/ADSR/Sequencer) in order for the Filter to behave this way in an "automated" form, or, use an expression pedal for manual control. Filter with drives can be made to sound plenty fat and beefy. Adding Synth would have put this over the top. You'll have to go AxeFxII for that though.
I've used them often, and they sound spot on to me.
One instance of Looper, to my knowledge.
Perhaps. I wouldn't assume that the stock preset library is going to necessarily scratch that itch, but I will say that the modifier/controller aspects of the Fractal devices are absolutely unrivaled in any hardware device I've ever encountered. Thus, if you understand how control modifiers work and how to implement them creatively, then YES, you can make it do for YOU some very unique things that no other single processor can do, other than another Fractal product like the AxeFx. For example, I attach a Pitch modifier to the Input Level and Feedback of a Delay that is in parallel to my dry signal, so that when I play high notes, the sound is drenched in delay, but when I play low notes, it automatically backs off the level going into the delay and reduces the feedback, drying up the tone. This is just one very simple example.
Couldn't address this, but from what I can tell, it is designed to be fairly quick to tweak live. YMMV.
The FX8 is a stripped down version of the AxeFxII, in pedal form, and aimed at those who don't want or need amp/cabinet modeling, and would use the FX8 as a front end virtual pedal board, or in conjunction with their existing amp's effects loop (or 4 cable method) with emphasis on there being zero "tone suck" altering the fundamental tone of the instrument.
Again, by design, has comparative limitations vs. the AxeFxII. If you want as much "whizz bang" as you can get in terms of effects & processing, IMO the AxeFXII is the way to go. The FX8 is still a very nice piece, though, no doubt. Fractal has a no questions 15 day trial period. Hope this helps.
I've not used the H9, but have owned or auditioned a lot of pitch shifters and reverbs. IMO, the reverbs are top notch, especially in High Res mode. Pitch shifting, no matter what unit is being discussed, always seems to be a very individual thing in terms of preference. I've owned the TC Electronic G-Force, Digitech Whammy, and EHX Pitch Fork. IMO the pitch shifting is excellent by comparison, especially if you want shifting with minimal shifted tone coloration, which is something all of the aforementioned units suffer from IMO. Personally, I've had to purposely filter/distort the pitch shifted tone(s) in order to make them less pristine sounding so that they'll better emulate the pitch shifted tones I'd become accustomed to. I don't view this as a bad thing - the accuracy of the tone - but rather something to be aware of. IMO it is better to have this and not need it (or need to alter it) than vice versa.
The answer: IMO maybe. If you're a overdrive/distortion/fuzz junkie and you know the circuitry that makes a pedal yield it's own specific flavor of distortion, then chances are you'll be able to edit the Drive parameters to your liking using an existing Drive Type as a starting point. And because you can do parallel routing, this makes blending the wet/dry mix a lot less hassle. True, there aren't any dedicated Bass guitar overdrive boxes modeled, but that doesn't mean they won't sound good - or cannot be made to sound good - on bass guitar. You might just need to tweak some of the parameters (low/hi pass filters, EQ, etc.) to get them closer to where you want them. I've used the Rat drive many times and find it to be a relatively easy adjustment for bass. Realistically, it is difficult for a multi-fx device to absolutely nail down every flavor of "popular" overdrive/fuzz pedal. The list is relatively comprehensive IMO, but I'm not the biggest bass distortion junkie out there either. YMMV, but as with everything Fractal, the quality of these drive effects is very good IMO.
IMO, yes. And this is where I wish the synth block would be brought into the FX8. The filters are very good, but not designed "as is" to be akin to a "synth filter". You would have to attach a controller (Envelope/Pitch/ADSR/Sequencer) in order for the Filter to behave this way in an "automated" form, or, use an expression pedal for manual control. Filter with drives can be made to sound plenty fat and beefy. Adding Synth would have put this over the top. You'll have to go AxeFxII for that though.
I've used them often, and they sound spot on to me.
One instance of Looper, to my knowledge.
Perhaps. I wouldn't assume that the stock preset library is going to necessarily scratch that itch, but I will say that the modifier/controller aspects of the Fractal devices are absolutely unrivaled in any hardware device I've ever encountered. Thus, if you understand how control modifiers work and how to implement them creatively, then YES, you can make it do for YOU some very unique things that no other single processor can do, other than another Fractal product like the AxeFx. For example, I attach a Pitch modifier to the Input Level and Feedback of a Delay that is in parallel to my dry signal, so that when I play high notes, the sound is drenched in delay, but when I play low notes, it automatically backs off the level going into the delay and reduces the feedback, drying up the tone. This is just one very simple example.
Couldn't address this, but from what I can tell, it is designed to be fairly quick to tweak live. YMMV.
The FX8 is a stripped down version of the AxeFxII, in pedal form, and aimed at those who don't want or need amp/cabinet modeling, and would use the FX8 as a front end virtual pedal board, or in conjunction with their existing amp's effects loop (or 4 cable method) with emphasis on there being zero "tone suck" altering the fundamental tone of the instrument.
Again, by design, has comparative limitations vs. the AxeFxII. If you want as much "whizz bang" as you can get in terms of effects & processing, IMO the AxeFXII is the way to go. The FX8 is still a very nice piece, though, no doubt. Fractal has a no questions 15 day trial period. Hope this helps.
I'm on the FX8 MK II waiting list. I'm buying primarily to replace my analog guitar pedalboard. But the idea of also using it for bass is pretty intriguing. I really don't use effects much on bass, but being able to set up some comp and EQ settings, and maybe a touch of chorus for the rare occasion I might need that, is pretty compelling.
FWIW, Fractal Audio is having a B-stock and special deals blowout for July...just saw the B-Stock FX8 showing as $499. Pretty sick deal for effects only! So tempting...but I just sold my HX Stomp recently, so not really in a purchasing/programming mode right now.
