Freeze...would something like this be possible in analogue?

Discussion in 'Effects [BG]' started by cnltb, Jun 25, 2019.

  1. cnltb

    cnltb

    May 28, 2005
    I like freeze( don't have one yet) and was wondering if one could achieve a very similar effect without going digital.
    Could one?


    Thanks!
     
  2. jbybj

    jbybj Supporting Member

    Jun 11, 2008
    Los Angeles
    No.
     
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  3. Taylor Livingston

    Taylor Livingston Supporting Member Commercial User

    Dec 25, 2002
    Oregon, US
    Owner, Iron Ether Electronics
    jbybj's short answer is good. For a longer answer, technically it would be possible to do with an array of many analog delay lines, crossfaders, ramp/trapezoid generators, and mixers. But the result would be really expensive, noisy, have limited frequency response, and people would generally not like it, despite how much everyone likes the sound of the word analog(ue).
     
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  4. jbybj

    jbybj Supporting Member

    Jun 11, 2008
    Los Angeles
    My long answer is equally convoluted.

    Develop the skill of circular breathing, and perfect your ability to imitate your bass with your voice box.

    BTW: I love the Freeze.
     
  5. Swimming Bird

    Swimming Bird

    Apr 18, 2006
    Wheaton MD
    It seems doable to me, just tricky. I think you could make the signal path analog but it would avoid a lot of hassle to use digital controllers. Maybe a very short delay with very very high feedback followed by a brick wall Comp, all controlled by relays off the switch?
     
  6. cnltb

    cnltb

    May 28, 2005
    In my case it's not that I am married to analogue on this. It is more the 'mickey mouse effect' I hear when trying freeze...funny artefacts that I don't like the sound of.:)
     
  7. bongomania

    bongomania Supporting Member Commercial User

    Oct 17, 2005
    PDX, OR
    owner, OVNIFX and OVNILabs
    Oh honey, you wouldn't like the artifacts you'd hear with an analog freeze circuit either.
     
  8. Tom Von Kramm

    Tom Von Kramm Commercial User

    Jul 19, 2012
    ZVex Lo-Fi Loop Junky, but if you are trying to avoid artifacts, well...

     
  9. Taylor Livingston

    Taylor Livingston Supporting Member Commercial User

    Dec 25, 2002
    Oregon, US
    Owner, Iron Ether Electronics
    I hear you. Before the Freeze came out, Don Stavely and I were working on a pedal like that, inspired by my experience with the HOG's cool freeze gliss function. Then EHX released the Freeze. So we came up with a bunch of cool extra features to add to differentiate ours. Then they released the SuperEgo, which pretty much had all the features we had built into ours. Since I can't compete with a company the size of EHX, I just shelved the prototype.

    As a result of developing this though, I became pretty familiar with the ins and outs of this kind of algorithm - experimenting with versions of it in software and hardware. It's a really complicated problem to make it work any "better" than EHX has done. Doing it with just delays will never sound smooth, because any transients will loop cyclically. If the delay is short enough not to add an audibly cycling loop, then it will add its own resonant pitch to whatever you're freezing (try turning a delay pedal's feedback up all the way and time to under 30ms).

    If anybody comes out with one that has fewer artifacts, I suspect it will be done with spectral processing, which is by its nature digital.

    One part that might not be obvious is how the pedal "knows" which part of your signal you actually want to freeze. Those glitches don't just come from nowhere - they're harmonics and transients (pick attack, fret noise, etc.) present in your sound, but we want to discard them when freezing. How might you communicate to the pedal what you want to keep and what you want to discard with just a stomp switch or expression pedal? Maybe somebody cleverer than I is working on a solution to this.
     
  10. cnltb

    cnltb

    May 28, 2005
    Now there is a 'proper' response to a post!
    Thank you!

    I might just get a freeze and see if I get along with it( although fo some reason I'd stay ckear of EHX). Those artefacts are also those I hear when trying digital octave ups...in octaves I want analogue because of that. :)
     
  11. FilterFunk

    FilterFunk Everything is on the ONE!

    Mar 31, 2010
    DANG...Taylor Livingston be schoolin' fools!!!*


    *TRANSLATION: The man knows his business!
     
  12. jbybj

    jbybj Supporting Member

    Jun 11, 2008
    Los Angeles
    Capturing right on the attack creates more variables, making “funny artifacts” more likely. I tend to get more even results capturing during a sustain. Though some of my favorite results are the funny artifact events.
    I have only heard demos, nothing in person, and haven’t investigated the underlying technology, but you may find something more suited to your needs in the Digitech FreqOut.
     
  13. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011
    Here's a demo for those who don't know what a Freeze is:
     
  14. cnltb

    cnltb

    May 28, 2005
    Yes...that sound is exactly why I don't have one yet.
    Sounds real cheap to me.
    And sounds soo good when Bill Frisell uses it.
    On the other hand, I might learn to like this cheap synth kind of vibe.:)
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
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  15. cnltb

    cnltb

    May 28, 2005
    Thanks!
    Can the Freq out do something similar?
     
  16. jbybj

    jbybj Supporting Member

    Jun 11, 2008
    Los Angeles
    I’m not entirely sure. The FreqOut was intended to simulate natural feedback. Again, never had hands on experience, but I know you can adjust the “onset”, how quickly it responds. I don’t know if it can do the instantaneous thing like a Freeze. I suggested you investigate based on my impression that the FreqOut has a more organic tonal quality.
    I find it interesting that you hear “cheapness” in the Freeze. To me it sounds tight, precise, modern. I suspect that you have life experiences and sense memories that I simply don’t share. Did a Casio treat you badly when you were a child?
     
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  17. cnltb

    cnltb

    May 28, 2005
    No. no bad experiences at Casinos when I was young :).
     
  18. Taylor Livingston

    Taylor Livingston Supporting Member Commercial User

    Dec 25, 2002
    Oregon, US
    Owner, Iron Ether Electronics
    The Gamechanger Plus Pedal is another take on this effect - maybe worth checking out to see if the sound works more for you (I have no personal experience with it).