Freeze...would something like this be possible in analogue?

[cnltb]

I like freeze( don't have one yet) and was wondering if one could achieve a very similar effect without going digital.
Could one?


Thanks!

 

[jbybj]

I like freeze( don't have one yet) and was wondering if one could achieve a very similar effect without going digital.
Could one?


Thanks!

No.

 

[Taylor Livingston]

jbybj's short answer is good. For a longer answer, technically it would be possible to do with an array of many analog delay lines, crossfaders, ramp/trapezoid generators, and mixers. But the result would be really expensive, noisy, have limited frequency response, and people would generally not like it, despite how much everyone likes the sound of the word analog(ue).

 

[jbybj]

My long answer is equally convoluted.

Develop the skill of circular breathing, and perfect your ability to imitate your bass with your voice box.

BTW: I love the Freeze.

 

[Swimming Bird]

It seems doable to me, just tricky. I think you could make the signal path analog but it would avoid a lot of hassle to use digital controllers. Maybe a very short delay with very very high feedback followed by a brick wall Comp, all controlled by relays off the switch?

 

[cnltb]

jbybj's short answer is good. For a longer answer, technically it would be possible to do with an array of many analog delay lines, crossfaders, ramp/trapezoid generators, and mixers. But the result would be really expensive, noisy, have limited frequency response, and people would generally not like it, despite how much everyone likes the sound of the word analog(ue).

In my case it's not that I am married to analogue on this. It is more the 'mickey mouse effect' I hear when trying freeze...funny artefacts that I don't like the sound of.

 

[bongomania]

Oh honey, you wouldn't like the artifacts you'd hear with an analog freeze circuit either.

 

[Tom Von Kramm]

ZVex Lo-Fi Loop Junky, but if you are trying to avoid artifacts, well...

 

[Taylor Livingston]

In my case it's not that I am married to analogue on this. It is more the 'mickey mouse effect' I hear when trying freeze...funny artefacts that I don't like the sound of.

I hear you. Before the Freeze came out, Don Stavely and I were working on a pedal like that, inspired by my experience with the HOG's cool freeze gliss function. Then EHX released the Freeze. So we came up with a bunch of cool extra features to add to differentiate ours. Then they released the SuperEgo, which pretty much had all the features we had built into ours. Since I can't compete with a company the size of EHX, I just shelved the prototype.

As a result of developing this though, I became pretty familiar with the ins and outs of this kind of algorithm - experimenting with versions of it in software and hardware. It's a really complicated problem to make it work any "better" than EHX has done. Doing it with just delays will never sound smooth, because any transients will loop cyclically. If the delay is short enough not to add an audibly cycling loop, then it will add its own resonant pitch to whatever you're freezing (try turning a delay pedal's feedback up all the way and time to under 30ms).

If anybody comes out with one that has fewer artifacts, I suspect it will be done with spectral processing, which is by its nature digital.

One part that might not be obvious is how the pedal "knows" which part of your signal you actually want to freeze. Those glitches don't just come from nowhere - they're harmonics and transients (pick attack, fret noise, etc.) present in your sound, but we want to discard them when freezing. How might you communicate to the pedal what you want to keep and what you want to discard with just a stomp switch or expression pedal? Maybe somebody cleverer than I is working on a solution to this.

 

[cnltb]

I hear you. Before the Freeze came out, Don Stavely and I were working on a pedal like that, inspired by my experience with the HOG's cool freeze gliss function. Then EHX released the Freeze. So we came up with a bunch of cool extra features to add to differentiate ours. Then they released the SuperEgo, which pretty much had all the features we had built into ours. Since I can't compete with a company the size of EHX, I just shelved the prototype.

As a result of developing this though, I became pretty familiar with the ins and outs of this kind of algorithm - experimenting with versions of it in software and hardware. It's a really complicated problem to make it work any "better" than EHX has done. Doing it with just delays will never sound smooth, because any transients will loop cyclically. If the delay is short enough not to add an audibly cycling loop, then it will add its own resonant pitch to whatever you're freezing (try turning a delay pedal's feedback up all the way and time to under 30ms).

If anybody comes out with one that has fewer artifacts, I suspect it will be done with spectral processing, which is by its nature digital.

One part that might not be obvious is how the pedal "knows" which part of your signal you actually want to freeze. Those glitches don't just come from nowhere - they're harmonics and transients (pick attack, fret noise, etc.) present in your sound, but we want to discard them when freezing. How might you communicate to the pedal what you want to keep and what you want to discard with just a stomp switch or expression pedal? Maybe somebody cleverer than I is working on a solution to this.

Now there is a 'proper' response to a post!
Thank you!

I might just get a freeze and see if I get along with it( although fo some reason I'd stay ckear of EHX). Those artefacts are also those I hear when trying digital octave ups...in octaves I want analogue because of that.

 

[FilterFunk]

I hear you. Before the Freeze came out, Don Stavely and I were working on a pedal like that, inspired by my experience with the HOG's cool freeze gliss function. Then EHX released the Freeze. So we came up with a bunch of cool extra features to add to differentiate ours. Then they released the SuperEgo, which pretty much had all the features we had built into ours. Since I can't compete with a company the size of EHX, I just shelved the prototype.

As a result of developing this though, I became pretty familiar with the ins and outs of this kind of algorithm - experimenting with versions of it in software and hardware. It's a really complicated problem to make it work any "better" than EHX has done. Doing it with just delays will never sound smooth, because any transients will loop cyclically. If the delay is short enough not to add an audibly cycling loop, then it will add its own resonant pitch to whatever you're freezing (try turning a delay pedal's feedback up all the way and time to under 30ms).

If anybody comes out with one that has fewer artifacts, I suspect it will be done with spectral processing, which is by its nature digital.

One part that might not be obvious is how the pedal "knows" which part of your signal you actually want to freeze. Those glitches don't just come from nowhere - they're harmonics and transients (pick attack, fret noise, etc.) present in your sound, but we want to discard them when freezing. How might you communicate to the pedal what you want to keep and what you want to discard with just a stomp switch or expression pedal? Maybe somebody cleverer than I is working on a solution to this.

DANG...Taylor Livingston be schoolin' fools!!!*


*TRANSLATION: The man knows his business!

 

[jbybj]

In my case it's not that I am married to analogue on this. It is more the 'mickey mouse effect' I hear when trying freeze...funny artefacts that I don't like the sound of.

Capturing right on the attack creates more variables, making “funny artifacts” more likely. I tend to get more even results capturing during a sustain. Though some of my favorite results are the funny artifact events.
I have only heard demos, nothing in person, and haven’t investigated the underlying technology, but you may find something more suited to your needs in the Digitech FreqOut.

 

[Wasnex]

Here's a demo for those who don't know what a Freeze is:

 

[cnltb]

Here's a demo for those who don't know what a Freeze is:

Yes...that sound is exactly why I don't have one yet.
Sounds real cheap to me.
And sounds soo good when Bill Frisell uses it.
On the other hand, I might learn to like this cheap synth kind of vibe.

 

[cnltb]

Capturing right on the attack creates more variables, making “funny artifacts” more likely. I tend to get more even results capturing during a sustain. Though some of my favorite results are the funny artifact events.
I have only heard demos, nothing in person, and haven’t investigated the underlying technology, but you may find something more suited to your needs in the Digitech FreqOut.

Thanks!
Can the Freq out do something similar?

 

[jbybj]

Thanks!
Can the Freq out do something similar?

I’m not entirely sure. The FreqOut was intended to simulate natural feedback. Again, never had hands on experience, but I know you can adjust the “onset”, how quickly it responds. I don’t know if it can do the instantaneous thing like a Freeze. I suggested you investigate based on my impression that the FreqOut has a more organic tonal quality.
I find it interesting that you hear “cheapness” in the Freeze. To me it sounds tight, precise, modern. I suspect that you have life experiences and sense memories that I simply don’t share. Did a Casio treat you badly when you were a child?

 

[cnltb]

I’m not entirely sure. The FreqOut was intended to simulate natural feedback. Again, never had hands on experience, but I know you can adjust the “onset”, how quickly it responds. I don’t know if it can do the instantaneous thing like a Freeze. I suggested you investigate based on my impression that the FreqOut has a more organic tonal quality.
I find it interesting that you hear “cheapness” in the Freeze. To me it sounds tight, precise, modern. I suspect that you have life experiences and sense memories that I simply don’t share. Did a Casio treat you badly when you were a child?

No. no bad experiences at Casinos when I was young .

 

[Taylor Livingston]

The Gamechanger Plus Pedal is another take on this effect - maybe worth checking out to see if the sound works more for you (I have no personal experience with it).