Double Bass French / German poll

[AGCurry]

Actually I am extremely surprised by the current poll results. My observation has been the majority plays French.

I suspect that our results are skewed by an atypical forum membership: A majority of our members seem to be primarily pizz players - not orchestral - for whom competence with the German grip is more readily attainable. As you say, the French grip can take more time and practice to master (without pain).

 

[MonetBass]

When I first started in the 5th grade, the school only had French bows, so that's what I used. That continued through high school and college, and I never felt the need to learn to use a German bow.

 

[Wasnex]

As opposed to the German-grip problem: The shaft hitting the bass's body.

This is just a guess. The German bow clanking against the bass's body might be more of a problem for me know, since I transitioned to sitting while I play in the early 90s. When I still used German exclusively, I played standing and the potential for the bow to hit the bass was something I was aware of, but it was a minor issue.

IMHO, both grips tend to have advantages and disadvantages. Whether a particular advantage or disadvantage manifests can be somewhat dependent on the players technique and physiology.

 

[Eli Brockway]

Shaft hitting the fingerboard or body is a lot nicer than what I ran into with French pizz transition issues a couple weeks ago playing a musical, and trying to be heard over all the drums and brass just left me in the pit.

Which was accidentally slamming the button into the top a couple times and putting some gnarly scratches into that lovingly restored finish it got from Greg a few months ago.

 

[DaveAceofBass]

French bow

 

[Lee Moses]

Actually I am extremely surprised by the current poll results. My observation has been the majority plays French. But I have not been active on the instrument for about a decade now, so maybe things have changed.

I am somewhat surprised as well. I actually used to encounter many more German bow players; but over the past 7+ years I've played with several other bassists in my current orchestra and a few other settings, and every single one of them has played French.

 

[Leif Dering]

I have always played German grip simply because it's what my teacher plays. I play around with a cheapo carbon fiber French bow sometimes, but I could never get a good sound or hold to save my life. One thing I have noticed, from all the orchestras I'm in, is that for the most part, people who start out on doublebass as their first orchestra string instrument tend to play German, while folks switching to doublebass from violin/viola/cello tend to play French. Which, of course, makes a lot of sense.

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

At least for me, French sounds like weak garbage if your grip isn’t 100 percent correct.

 

[AGCurry]

At least for me, French sounds like weak garbage if your grip isn’t 100 percent correct.

I can manage to sound like weak garbage either way.

 

[Wasnex]

I have always played German grip simply because it's what my teacher plays. I play around with a cheapo carbon fiber French bow sometimes, but I could never get a good sound or hold to save my life. One thing I have noticed, from all the orchestras I'm in, is that for the most part, people who start out on doublebass as their first orchestra string instrument tend to play German, while folks switching to doublebass from violin/viola/cello tend to play French. Which, of course, makes a lot of sense.

I guess I am the exception as I started on viola. When I moved to bass, I chose German because it felt better. Later I transitioned to French because I had more facility with it.

 

[Johnny L]

I like both equally and have witnessed some stellar classical bassists even switch grips in mid-performance -- meaning that they are masters with both not cheating or some weird trick.

Speaking for myself, I do think German is easier to play for long periods without pain issues...and I do think that has mostly to do with wanting to get strong tone from the lowest strings which many of us right or wrong intuit needs more and more weight. The thumb being on top of the stick really helps to make that easier but still opens a can of worms all its own (e.g., bow's simply moving far too fast across the string, unnecessary squeezing, etc). Gotta make it happen by hook or crook in this game but the bass is also Gojira and it will punish you mercilessly if you let it.

Gary Karr likes to talk about the thumb being important in other ways that German bows exploit to the fullest but I like French enough to call those assertions beyond my intellect. Can't deny that his sound is absolutely FANTASTIC though.

 

[damonsmith]

Thankfully, I learned French first. I like both, the German more, though.

 

[jj.833]

I've been discussing this issue with a teacher just yesterday. He's much more experienced than me, he says that French is better for difficult strokes (like ricochet), while German is easier to get powerful sound. Can't say for myself as I only play German.
We found another interesting subject: in European tradition, the bass is often standing quite straight (see Zimmermann photo in US Simandl edition), while jazz players tend to have the bass standing angled (Rabbath too, perhaps this is not jazz tradition at all). For both grips, you need to have your whole arm loosely straight. But with German grip, your reach is a bit shorter - bow is "in the hand". With french (bow "below the hand") you reach a few centimeters further. If you lay your bass angled on you, with German grip your hand can easily get "too short", resulting in bent back.

 

[Mark_T]

I started with French, switched to German in high school, and back to French in college (early 2000s). Both switches were to match my teacher at the time.

For me, German was easier to play at the beginning, but posed hard problems later. French was much harder at first, but allowed me to get over some hurdles that I hadn't been able to clear playing German. I'm sure that with different teachers or a different body shape, or other factors, those differences would have been less or even opposite - it's very much a YMMV situation.

Recently, I bought an inexpensive German bow because I want to be able to do both at least a little bit. It feels pretty weird but it's fun to have both options.

 

[fdeck]

I voted French only. My first instrument was cello, so French has been the path of least resistance. I'm just a classical wannabee, but do most of my jazz soloing with the bow, as well as a lot of my practicing. For switching to pizz, I've got a bow quiver.

 

[BobDeRosa]

I never got far enough with the French hold to be able to do it without pain. Never had pain even when beginning on German.

I had the exact same experience, but I sometimes wonder if French would have less of an impact on body position. I find myself twisting in weird ways to play on the E string with a German bow. Maybe I just need a lesson.

 

[Bruce Calin]

In Murray Grodner's book he says ideally we should all be at least 6'2" to play the bass. A tall friend who plays and teaches German says that tall people do better with it in his opinion because of the position of the hand on the bow and the wider arc to play on all the strings. All of us shorter folks just have to deal(sigh).

 

[AGCurry]

In Murray Grodner's book he says ideally we should all be at least 6'2" to play the bass. A tall friend who plays and teaches German says that tall people do better with it in his opinion because of the position of the hand on the bow and the wider arc to play on all the strings. All of us shorter folks just have to deal(sigh).

Tell that to Gary Karr.

 

[CaseyVancouver]

In Murray Grodner's book he says ideally we should all be at least 6'2" to play the bass.

No need for any of us to get too excited about this comment. Grodner is only referring to ‘perfection of comfort’ and is part of one sentence, from a number of pages on technique. Kind of taken out of context.

The ‘to play the bass’ part of that sentence quoted is not in the book.

By the way, since this thread has a poll on French or German bow, Grodner states he has ‘no preference’ for either bow. This is from a University teacher that taught thousands French and German, played professionally and produced some top orchestral pro’s.

 

[Bruce Calin]

No need for any of us to get too excited about this comment. Grodner is only referring to ‘perfection of comfort’ and is part of one sentence, from a number of pages on technique. Kind of taken out of context.

The ‘to play the bass’ part of that sentence quoted is not in the book.

By the way, since this thread has a poll on French or German bow, Grodner states he has ‘no preference’ for either bow. This is from a University teacher that taught thousands French and German, played professionally and produced some top orchestral pro’s.

I intended this to be a somewhat facetious comment on the fact that not all of us,including apparently Mr. Grodner, are not that tall. No joking allowed?