Fretless 5 Comp, Drake Custom build

[Drake Custom]

Thanks guys for the great advice and opinions.

I decided on a course of action and we will see if the results were worth it. I went back and forth a few times but I figured that since this is not a customer build, the worst thing that could happen is that I would have re-work some things and maybe not get finished in time. As of now it looks as if I will have this bass done by the end of the month so I have some time.

Just to refresh everyones memory I decided to extend the fretlines out into the binding. I had some very fragile pieces of Maple binding laying around so I will use them. I needed to be able to slot the very thin pieces to match the lines on the finger board. Here is how I did it.

I taped the two pieces of Maple to a scrap piece of Wenge to make everything rigid and as straight as possible. I then used my carpet tape to stick the pieces to my scale template. I used some squeeze clamps to hold things still but I also had to pinch the pieces together with my fingers as I carefully sawed the slots. Note to self: Put the two pieces between two pieces of scrap in the future. I got in a hurry and that is bad but it turned out OK. After I was done slotting the Maple strips I had to remove them from the carpet tape. They are even more fragile with the slots cut through them especially in the upper regions of the FB. I used Naphtha dripped onto the carpet tape to disolve the adheisive. They then lifted out just fine.

No I am not building a model train set but I am filling the slots with veneer to make the dark portion of the fretlines. This was the best way I could think of to do this. I thought about filling the slots with dust and superglue after the strips were glued to the FB but if glue hardened in the slots that would be a pain in the butt.
I put a small bit of superglue in each slot and slid the Macassar Ebony veneer pieces into the slots. Only once did the glue set up before I could get the piece firmly seated.

After the glue dried (with the help of NCF) I used some very sharp scissors to cut the Ebony off as close to the binding as I could. The part of the Ebony that stuck up above the binding was easy as it snapped off cleanly as the grain ran in favor of that way. To sand back the lines flush with the binding I stuck some stikit sandpaper to my table saw surface and sanded as you see above. Since the glue and veneer has been added the binding strips are rigid again and easier to work with.

Now to channel the FB to receive the bindings. I secured this piece of scrap (cut off from the same neck blank as to match thickness perfectly) with carpet tape to keep my bit from chewing up the FB when I run out of neck. I had to find this out the hardway back when I first tried binding. The neck is also secured with carpet tape.
Side note: I almost think that one can build a bass with nothing but glue, toothpicks, carpet tape, and a router. Maybe a good build-off some day.

Here is the bearing bit that I used to make the channel. It can be bought through Stewmac. It is set to route the channel to match the binding I have.

Here is the finished channel. A bit blurry but you get the idea.

Here is my new invention that holds my squeeze clamps in line so that I can apply wood binding. I spent way too much time making this thing but it worked for this time. I probably will go back to the tape method as this was a pain to set up.

You can see the slot that did not get filled with Ebony veneer. I fixed it before the glue up of the binding.

And here is a close up after the glue has dried and I radiused the FB down.

Next time I will show the routing of the cavities and neck pocket. I have already completed the work so I know how it turned out. It turned out.......

Thanks for reading my post. Thanks for the comments and feedback.

 

[Big B.]

Thats nice Drake, very classy looking.

 

[Drake Custom]

It is routing day here at my shop. I will cut all off the cavitites in this post. I apologize for the amount of pics but I want to show all of the steps.

First I trace out my cavities shape using my template. I do the inside cavity first.

Then I use a forstner bit to hog out the extra wood.

Then I use the green 3/4 bit, that I used to shape the neck, to complete the cavity with the template fixed in place with, you guessed it, carpet tape. The bit has a bearing for the template as you may remember.

I do the same process with the recess for the cavity cover. I use the 3/8 bearing bit from before to do this.

I will utilize the same, draw out, hog out, and route out with template technique and bearing bit to finish off the PUP cavities. Now onto the neck cavity.

I eyeball the alignment and just freehand pencil out the shape of the pocket....just kidding. I use the neck to center and trace the shape onto the body blank. I lay two yard sticks on either side of the neck and use a ruler to center everyting to the center line of the body blank. I have sanded the sides of the neck heel to a finishing level as I want the pocket to reflect the true shape of the neck. I then very carefully remove the yardsticks and trace the neck heel shape with a fine mechanical pencil.

On the fine pencil lines do I make my template from three pieces of plexiglass. On top of the template I have two smaller pieces that are tapered to get the correct neck angle. You can see now why I left the mass around the neck pocket. This keeps the template supported and keeps the router from dipping at the edge. I know that it would be better to have standard size templates that are solid but in the custom world I never get an order for the same neck dimensions twice it seems. Flexibility.

Now just route, stir, and serve. The pocket is cut at an angle so that shims are not needed.

A stellar picture of the 3/8 bearing bit I use to route pickup and neck cavities. Stewmac bit.

The completed neck pocket.

Lookie Ma! No screws! With this method you are essentially making a large dovetail joint. Very tight and there is no wiggle to the neck. You do have to make sure that everything is lined up before routing or you will have a mess to fix. I hear the arguments over Thru-neck, set necks, and bolt-ons (with a good tight pocket) as to which is the best for tone and sustain. It is my opinion all are good if done correctly. I would put my bolt-on necks up against my thru-neck basses for sustain any day. You would have to show me on a scope to prove to me a difference in tone. Very small if any. Now sloppy bolt-on necks? I would not make such a claim. They have to be tight. Here the body is supported only by the friction of the neck heel in the pocket. No screws or glue. If you have never tried this method before give it a go, you may be surprised with the results.

At last we are at the end of this post. Thanks for checking it out. Keep up the great builds.

 

[Drake Custom]

I realized that I left out one part. After routing the neck pocket, I cleaned up the corners with a chisel.

 

[Bricesedge03]

amazing. enough said

 

[Kev2007]

Wow. Thanks for the detailed posts. I'm enjoying your craftsmanship.

 

[Drake Custom]

I hope everyone had a good weekend.

I was able to get some work done on my fretless 5. Here is what I have so far....

I am at the point where I need to laminate the back of the headstock. I like to do this and always have. There is no major reason for this other than I think it looks good and it covers the glue line that you see here.
I first have to sand, scape, and prepare the back of the headstock. I use razor blades that I put a burr on to make a small scraper. This works great for fine carving and trimming binding.
The back of the headstock will have a gentle curve that is not too sharp so that I can bend a piece of wood and glue it in place. The laminate is a little less than 1/8 of an inch and is flat when I go to glue it on. It gets bent as I clamp it down. I have been told that 1/8 is too thick for a veneer but I do sand the thickness down more after the veneer is glued on the headstock.
I should have gotten a picture looking at it from the side so you can see how much of a curve I have. It is important to make the curve smooth so that the laminate makes contact over 100% of the surface of the rear of the headstock.

Here is the piecs of Walnut I had laying about that I am using for the laminate.

Using a ton of clamps I glue it all up.

Here is the end result. I have a lot of shaping and sanding to do but this is the rough laminate.

A bit blurry but here I am adding the side dots. I left a thin piece of the Ebony showing as I hate glue lines and this adds a decorative look to the binding.

The fun is about to begin. I have my neck in my Lo-tech-neck jig and ready to carve.

And some progress.

I will be able to carve the body this week and I hope to have more pics by the end of the week.

Thanks for looking.

 

[adam.beauchene]

I hope everyone had a good weekend.

I was able to get some work done on my fretless 5. Here is what I have so far....

...

Nice. I'm a huge fan of razor blades on scraper duty, I like using the cheap single-edge ones because I can work the flex to my advantage, I don't even bother putting a burr on them I hold them pretty close to vertical and go.

Your bass is coming along nicely. I really like that top.

 

[Drake Custom]

Thanks.

Today I am going to show some of the progress I have made in carving my fretless 5 string bass. It is a bit rough yet as it has a ton of sanding to be done. The neck is mostly carved and is ready for fine sanding and the fingerboard is ready for superglue.

You can see that I have drilled the neck mounting holes.

The Purpleheart carves like cement so it has taken a while to get her this far.

Thanks for taking time to look at my work.

 

[miziomix]

Looking very very good!

 

[Big John66]

Very nice!

 

[Musiclogic]

Love the reverse marker binding, was going just the opposite with mine, so I'll have to switch it up a bit. Very nice work

 

[Syco_bass]

Amazing work by an amazing craftsman. Can't wait to see it finished.

Sub'd.

 

[Phil Mastro]

I like the roundover on the body and headstock.

 

[Drake Custom]

Thanks everyone for the comments and for checking out my build.
Last year when I first got onto Talkbass and began reading about LC I understood that one major purpose of the section is to share ideas and techniques on instrument building. To help those who are just getting into building get some advice on how to do different tasks needed to build great instruments.
Well in the spirit of that I am going to take my build on a slight detour. I have buillt fretless basses before and use mostly Ebony and other very hard woods for the fingerboards. I have used Maple before but had to keep the strings from wearing nasty spots into the softer Maple. I needed to coat the fingerboard with a hard substance to reduce wear. I used superglue to do this. Some builders use epoxy or other resins but I found superglue works great.
Note: On dark woods like my Ebony, this method still works great but in sunlight some scratches between the layers of the coating will be visable. I am going to show my method for coating a FB but I will probably sand it off before the end of my build. For Ebony fretless boards I like the raw wood feel. Again, this is just a demo and it will seal my fretlines.

First I masked off the heel and the nut areas as superglue is a pain to remove from theses areas without changing the shape of the neck heel and nut slot. My FB is radiused and sanded to a 1200 grit surface. I used 2400 and 3600 grit fiber cloth to polish the surface a little more.
I need to have superglue remover, blue shop towels, and a well vented area to do this.

Then I apply a little superglue to the board and immediately wipe the glue down the FB.

Smooth passes down the board and back. I think of it as just like a wiping varnish. You do have to work quick and due to the thickness of the glue, only have about 20 seconds to complete the coat. Plenty of time. If some part is missed let the glue dry and sand before applying the next coat. Once the glue starts setting, if you try to fix a spot you'll just get papertowel stuck to the FB.

After I build up a couple of coats and the glue has set, I sand it back with my radius beam and 3M brand Stikit sandpaper. The dark lines are areas that are low and you need to sand until they disappear. Then add more layers and repeat. I use about 8 coats but most is sanded off and is dust on the floor.

After several rounds I have radiused the fingerboard and went through the fine grit sanding and polishing with micro fiber to get this shiny hard surface. It is hard to see in this picture but it is like glass. Most of the streaks you see are the grain of the ebony as it was not solid black and I did not dye it.

You can see some swirl marks and the scratches between the coats of finish like I described earlier because of the dark wood. Like I said, this method is best for light colored woods like Maple. You can use it for darker woods if function out weighs the looks.

Here is a example of a 4 string that I did this method on. The scratches between the layers of superglue do not show.

 

[Kev2007]

Thanks everyone for the comments and for checking out my build.
Last year when I first got onto Talkbass and began reading about LC I understood that one major purpose of the section is to share ideas and techniques on instrument building. To help those who are just getting into building get some advice on how to do different tasks needed to build great instruments.
Well in the spirit of that I am going to take my build on a slight detour. I have buillt fretless basses before and use mostly Ebony and other very hard woods for the fingerboards. I have used Maple before but had to keep the strings from wearing nasty spots into the softer Maple. I needed to coat the fingerboard with a hard substance to reduce wear. I used superglue to do this. Some builders use epoxy or other resins but I found superglue works great.
Note: On dark woods like my Ebony, this method still works great but in sunlight some scratches between the layers of the coating will be visable. I am going to show my method for coating a FB but I will probably sand it off before the end of my build. For Ebony fretless boards I like the raw wood feel. Again, this is just a demo and it will seal my fretlines.

Wow. Thanks for the tutorial, this is something I've been thinking about for a long time: epoxy or superglue?

What kind of glue are you using? I see the bottle there in the background, and I can get that stuff, but is it the 'Hot Stuff" (low viscosity), "Super T", or "Special T"?

What a beautiful fretboard - great work, and thanks for sharing.

Kev

 

[Drake Custom]

Kev,
I use Satellite City Hot Stuff Super T instant glue. With the yellow label. Other glues work but I have not tried any others. Some NCF accelerator is good to have too.

 

[Rip Topaz]

I've used this same method on fretless boards made of purpleheart. Easy to accomplish and works great. Lasts pretty long before it needs touched up, too.

 

[ctmullins]

I've used this same method on fretless boards made of purpleheart. Easy to accomplish and works great. Lasts pretty long before it needs touched up, too.

Perfect timing - I'm going to be building a fretless fiver soon, and it will have a purpleheart fingerboard. I've read about the eventual oxidation of purpleheart, and now I'm wondering whether the superglue layer might prevent the discoloration. Rip, any thoughts on this?

BTW, I wanna see pics of that fretless T-bird!

OP - fabulous build. Thanks for making me feel completely inept.

 

[Musiclogic]

Perfect timing - I'm going to be building a fretless fiver soon, and it will have a purpleheart fingerboard. I've read about the eventual oxidation of purpleheart, and now I'm wondering whether the superglue layer might prevent the discoloration. Rip, any thoughts on this?

BTW, I wanna see pics of that fretless T-bird!

OP - fabulous build. Thanks for making me feel completely inept.

Awwww c'mon CT, you can't be completely inept, you linked a quote, completed your post and added a smiley. You are light years ahead of many...LOL