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Double Bass Fretless Acoustic Bass Guitar?

Dec 30, 2019
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I was debating whether to cross post this, but I want to start on the DB forum because, well, that's mostly what I play.

Pre-pandemic, I went to jams and open mics regularly to play with other folks, and sometimes it's a lot of miles to travel and you only end up playing one or two songs. So I started looking for a decent fretless acoustic bass guitar. My first wish is to find one that is as loud as I can get so that I could potentially not bring an amp along. My secondary wish is a bass that has a sound that is, at least, suggestive of an upright.

The best instrument I've tried so far is the Breedlove Solo Jumbo CE fretless bass. It could be louder, but it has a pickup if necessary, and at $800, great bang for the buck.

Any thoughts?
 
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I will be the (somewhat) dissenting voice here. In the main I would say @AGCurry and fellow travelers are correct: ABGS, no matter whether fretted or fretless, that will meet OP's criteria are extremely hard to find, but they are out there.

Before going further, I will say that any assessment of ABG volume for an ensemble is flawed if the perspective is from the player's position behind the soundhole. The judgment should be made by someone in front of the soundhole, across the room preferably. Even if the player plucks the instrument with the soundhole facing him/her, s/he will find the instrument discernably louder.

As to candidates, a lot of players swear by the Tacoma/Olympia basses; and the big-bodied Deans, though cheap, can be pretty loud, especially with the right strings (So can a Washburn AB-32, but good luck finding one of those). The pick of the litter would be a Harry Fleishman first generation Compact Bass: 6" body depth at the neck, 9" at the butt. But one of these would be nearly impossible to find and absolutely impossible to find for $800.

For OP's purposes, I would recommend an original issue Eko BA4 (trapeze tailpiece, floating bridge). Plenty loud enough (speaking from experience); rare, although one comes up on the market every once in awhile, and for less than $800. And these have mwah to die for. And fretless models of these are for more prevalent than are fretted ones.

The only problem OP may have with these is that they are very mid-rangy, probably due to the flattened soundhole; but if I could not get a Fleishman, the Eko would be my second choice.

Of course, I cannot pass up this opportunity to flog my favorite horse in these type threads: forget the ABG and just get a 1/4 size DB. No problems there with being heard at all.
 
Thanks, @GretschWretch, that was helpful. I'll look thru all the suggestions you gave me. I hadn't even thought of the 1/4 size DB! Why do you say a "first generation," Fleishman Compact Bass?

And, to be clear to everyone, I am not looking for a DB substitute. Nor am I looking in the $800 range. All I wrote that it was a "bang for the buck" aspect of the Breedlove. The Takamine B10, for example, is around $3,000, but I've heard that it's not very loud. I didn't ask for an AGB that was as loud as a DB. What I said was (given that I'm looking at AGBs) is that I'd like one that's as loud as possible.
 
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I am in the camp that you are unlikely to find an instrument that suits you. I have an abg and have tried several. They simply aren't very loud either for the player or other players much less an audience. They also are prone to feedback when amplified. Then there is strings. My experience is the loudest strings will be round wound. They aren't kind to fret-less fingerboards and don't have much of an upright like sound. Tapewounds come as close as I have heard to an upright sound but have significantly less volume. For portability, fun, and acoustic vibe, you may want to look at a Kala bass uke or the less expensive Goldtone version. You will have to amplify though.
 
Thanks, @GretschWretch, that was helpful. I'll look thru all the suggestions you gave me. I hadn't even thought of the 1/4 size DB! Why do you say a "first generation," Fleishman Compact Bass?

Thanks for your reply, Paul. To clarify, I probably am the only person on this forum who does not treat the 1/4 size as a DB -- I have half- and 3/4 sizes for that -- but as an ABG to shut people up when they commence with the "It ain't loud enough!" argument. My 1/4 does not even have an endpin. I play it seated, either across my lap or with the butt on the floor. (The bass's butt, not mine.)

I say "first generation" Compact Bass because the scoundrel keeps changing his design. I am a huge admirer of Harry Fleishman -- have been for years -- but we are on about Compact Bass 3.0 right now, and in my opinion each iteration gets us a bit further from the original concept, which was a non-DB acoustic bass loud enough to be heard in ensemble unplugged. The first version did not even have onboard electronics.

The Eko BA4 has a modern reissue (the originals went out of production around 1985) that has a cutaway body and a pin bridge. Don't bother; you want the original that has the floating bridge and trapeze tailpiece. There are some Youtube clips of this one.

Vintage EKO BA4 fretless acoustic bass. Made in Italy. In great shape! | eBay

eko ba4 talkbass - Google Search
 
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I am in the camp that you are unlikely to find an instrument that suits you. . . . For portability, fun, and acoustic vibe, you may want to look at a Kala bass uke or the less expensive Goldtone version. You will have to amplify though.

That has been recommended to me. If they make a fretless, I'll have to find one and try it out :-)
 
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I was debating whether to cross post this, but I want to start on the DB forum because, well, that's mostly what I play.

Pre-pandemic, I went to jams and open mics regularly to play with other folks, and sometimes it's a lot of miles to travel and you only end up playing one or two songs. So I started looking for a decent fretless acoustic bass guitar. My first wish is to find one that is as loud as I can get so that I could potentially not bring an amp along. My secondary wish is a bass that has a sound that is, at least, suggestive of an upright.

The best instrument I've tried so far is the Breedlove Solo Jumbo CE fretless bass. It could be louder, but it has a pickup if necessary, and at $800, great bang for the buck.

Any thoughts?


I own a Thunderchief CB10. I will second what @GretschWretch has said, you have to judge from the perspective of the audience. From the perspective of the player, IMHO it's very unsatisfying to play ABG with an ensemble. If the instrument is set up with high action, you can make a contribution with instrumentation such as acoustic guitar, cajon, melodica, and couple of vocalists. But you will have to put a lot of energy into the ABG and you will not have any sensation of power like you get with amp. The tone will be very middy sounding.

Some of the Breedlove basses have a port on top of the instrument so the player can hear a bit better. This may degrade how well the instrument projects to the audience though. I would definitely consider one of the top of the line Breedloves though as the seem to be very nice instruments.

Spector makes a well reviewed ABG called the Timbre, which seems obviously patterned after the Tacoma. Videos of the Spector sound very similar to the Tacoma as well. IMHO the Tacoma is one of the louder ABGs, tone is fairly even across the strings, but the fundamental is pretty weak unless you use an amp. Edit: Unfortunately I don't think they make a fretless :(.

Rather than trying to force an ABG to work acoustically, I think it's far more realistic to use one with an amp. About the smallest amp I would recommend is the Roland Cube Street EX. (Bass) Users of this amp suggest it work even better if you run a battery powered HPF and compressor in front of it.

I would not personally bother with the regular Cube Street or Micro Cube Bass RX. I have tried both and they were barely louder than my Tacoma, and I had to really control my dynamic range to avoid causing them to fart out. The Cube Street EX is not what I would call loud, but it does make 10 times the power of regular Cube Street and Micro Cube Bass RX.

If you don't need/want battery power, most small bass combo amps will probably out perform the Cube Street EX. Or use whatever relatively small amp you already own, or whatever happens to be at the jam session.

If you use an amp all the time, the acoustic volume of the ABG is not as important. In fact, an ABG that it designed to produce more acoustic volume will generally tend to feed back sooner when run through an amp.

My Tacoma actually sounds absolutely fabulous through an amp, but I would say it's only usable at low to perhaps medium volume because it is sensitive to feedback. As you increase the volume the tone begins to change and become uneven, and eventually the bass will begin to feedback. My Tacoma has one of the Fishman preamps so it has a notch filter, phase/polarity switch, and a variable frequency mid that can be used to compensate quite a bit, but at some point you loose control.

Some other fairly cheap ABGs that produce very little acoustic volume are known for sounding fabulous through and amp and being able to cope better with high stage volume.

A sound hole plug can help with high volume as it keeps the sound from entering the body of the instrument and rumbling around. There used to be 3rd party sources who made plugs for the Tacoma but I never bought one. If you buy an ABG with a round sound hole, it's probably more likely that you will be able to find a plug.
 
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That has been recommended to me. If they make a fretless, I'll have to find one and try it out :)
Look at the Ashbory basses. They are very small, fretless and sound pretty big when plugged in. Some have issues with the "stock" strings, but the thunder gut set I have on mine have had zero issues. The only issues with them is the scale is violin length rather than small bass sized. If you aren't used to using all 4 LH fingers you might struggle a bit at times.

I have 3 ABGs and gigged one of them regularly before everything shut down. For practicing solo they are great but totally useless if anyone else is plugged in or more than 2 acoustic guitars are getting strummed with a pick. If you need it loud you'd better have some technology handy to kill feedback, because all of them will feed back. A shuttle 3.0 8t is a great fit for an ABG (upright too) for playing at a comfortable volume without killing yourself.
 
I went down that path and concluded the best bang for buck was a used Squier P-Bass with flats, foam rubber at the bridge, and a good setup, playing through a small amp. It doesn't tear my hands up like I have to do to get enough volume out of my Dean ABG to be heard. With the "tone" control rolled all the way off it occupies much the same space as a DB. I don't have a battery powered amp but would get one if I were using this bass in a lot of outdoor jam sessions.
 
I have a Tacoma Thunderchief - one of the largest and loudest, but I need an amp if I'm playing with others.

There was a local guy who used to play one of these at jam sessions and I was really impressed by how it sounded. Usually plugged it in, though.

I played one of the fretless Taylors used once and thought it was an outstanding instrument that stood a good chance of working as an accoustic instrument. I really enjoyed playing it as well, which isn't usually the case.

If I recall they were a few thousand $ and I'm not sure that they make them any more.