Double Bass Fretless Acoustic Bass Guitar?

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

Years ago I owned an early Earthwood Bass and a good German ply at the same time.

Acoustic projection was on a par, but the fundamental projection of the Earthwood was vastly attenuated by comparison, which cleaves to the laws of physics: Low, small or loud. Pick any two, but you can’t have all three.

When you eliminate frets from the equation, you further diminish attack. It’s a losing game.

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

I've owned and gigged the Taylor AB-1, one of Tom Ribbecke's basses, and a fretless Tacoma Thunderchief. If you're used to double bass, the fundamental register of ABG will probably disappoint you. And despite the encouraging words about being "loud enough," I respectfully disagree. Especially for the first five notes on the E string, the ABG is pretty much worthless for gigging with other instruments without amplification.

That said, it doesn't take much amplification for a small "acoustic" gig. In the video below, you will hear my fretless Thunderchief played with an acoustic guitar and mandolin. The bass was strung with black nylon tapewounds. There was a single stereo microphone about three feet in front of us capturing the performance. The bass was the only instrument amplified, and it was very low volume through a small cab on the floor behind the guitar player. FWIW!

 

[carl h.]

That said, it doesn't take much amplification for a small "acoustic" gig. In the video below, you will hear my fretless Thunderchief played with an acoustic guitar and mandolin. The bass was strung with black nylon tapewounds. There was a single stereo microphone about three feet in front of us capturing the performance. The bass was the only instrument amplified, and it was very low volume through a small cab on the floor behind the guitar player. FWIW!

I try to use an amp/combo that will fit under the chair when playing with guitars, better control and sound "feels" better when it appears to be coming from the guitar. I used a Bassman 25 for a while which was great for unplugged gigs, but it soon ran out of steam as the guitars plugged in. A shuttle 3.0 combo (8t in my case) was the best solution for me. Small enough to fit under but with enough power to balance 6 amplified acoustics.

Putting the combo under the chair also got me enough off axis that there was more gain before feedback.

I have an el capitan strung with Labella black tapes that is about as loud unplugged as anything, but my go to is a 32" Dean ABG midline model strung with Savarez classical guitare contrebasse strings and haven't found anything better for my needs. It sounds like a guitar - a bass guitar - which is what I am going for and projects better than anything I've found. The problem with them is the longest version they offer is 810 mm (32") and they don't come with ball ends so you need to work around that problem. I made a false anchor block I slide in the body and feed the strings out through the pin block. Slows down string changes but the sound is worth it. It doesn't produce a lot of volume, but the tone plugged in is amazing.

 

[Wasnex]

If you go down that road IMHO stay away from the Bronze Phosphor strings they often come with. They are horrible. And this from a guy who loves Roto Rounds!

I actually think phospor bronze strings are fine on a fretted instrument. The tone is more consistent with the low strings of an acoustic guitar. Also I think the intent with these strings is to be as loud as possible. So even if you don't like the tone, consider whether it's important to be heard or not. IMHO, the phospor bronze will definitely help you cut through if you play acoustically. I am not saying they are the right choice for everyone, but I am also not saying they are the wrong choice.

However, the OP is in interested in fretless and I can't imagine using phosphor bronze on a fretless.

 

[CryingBass]

I actually think phospor bronze strings are fine on a fretted instrument. The tone is more consistent with the low strings of an acoustic guitar. Also I think the intent with these strings is to be as loud as possible. So even if you don't like the tone, consider whether it's important to be heard or not. IMHO, the phospor bronze will definitely help you cut through if you play acoustically. I am not saying they are the right choice for everyone, but I am also not saying they are the wrong choice.

However, the OP is in interested in fretless and I can't imagine using phosphor bronze on a fretless.

My limited experience came from buying a Sawtooth lined fretless ( it was an option ).
Jury's still out on the bass itself, but the PB strings that came on it are like playing razor wire

 

[Wasnex]

I've owned and gigged the Taylor AB-1, one of Tom Ribbecke's basses, and a fretless Tacoma Thunderchief. If you're used to double bass, the fundamental register of ABG will probably disappoint you. And despite the encouraging words about being "loud enough," I respectfully disagree. Especially for the first five notes on the E string, the ABG is pretty much worthless for gigging with other instruments without amplification.

That said, it doesn't take much amplification for a small "acoustic" gig. In the video below, you will hear my fretless Thunderchief played with an acoustic guitar and mandolin. The bass was strung with black nylon tapewounds. There was a single stereo microphone about three feet in front of us capturing the performance. The bass was the only instrument amplified, and it was very low volume through a small cab on the floor behind the guitar player. FWIW!

The bass sounds really nice . Great use of the amp IMHO, as that is not how a Tacoma sounds acoustically.

I would say this video captures the sound of the fretted Tacoma pretty authentically.


Here is a post I wrote about the Spector Timbre and how I think it may compare to the Tacoma. The post has a video where the Timbre is compared to an acoustic guitar, unfortunately both are played separately but I think you will get the idea.

 

[Wasnex]

My limited experience came from buying a Sawtooth lined fretless ( it was an option ).
Jury's still out on the bass itself, but the PB strings that came on it are like playing razor wire

Years ago I bought a used Tacoma with PB strings. They are pretty worn and somewhat corroded. When I play the bass my fingers shine them up a bit.

The bass came with a few fresh sets, but I am happy to leave the old strings alone for now. If I had a fretless, I would try the black tape wounds. People seem to like the D'Addarios.

 

[Wasnex]

Another ABG I found that seems in the style of the Tacoma...unfortunately list is $1800, which is significantly over the OPs target.

Model Furch Bc 61-CM 4 - Bass Guitar Models - Furch Guitars

 

[carl h.]

If I had a fretless, I would try the black tape wounds. People seem to like the D'Addarios.

I personally could not stand them. Lifeless and thuddy to my ear. The Labella tapes are full of life and tone. I have Black tapes on my fretless and couldn't imagine anything better. On my other 5 string ABG (can't remember the particulars and too lazy to go find it now) I have their copper tapes and they are much brighter than the blacks which are not dark sounding at all.

 

[RSBBass]

That has been recommended to me. If they make a fretless, I'll have to find one and try it out

Kala does, not sure about Goldtone.

 

[GretschWretch]

I try to use an amp/combo that will fit under the chair when playing with guitars, better control and sound "feels" better when it appears to be coming from the guitar. I used a Bassman 25 for a while which was great for unplugged gigs, but it soon ran out of steam as the guitars plugged in. A shuttle 3.0 combo (8t in my case) was the best solution for me. Small enough to fit under but with enough power to balance 6 amplified acoustics.

Putting the combo under the chair also got me enough off axis that there was more gain before feedback.

I have an el capitan strung with Labella black tapes that is about as loud unplugged as anything, but my go to is a 32" Dean ABG midline model strung with Savarez classical guitare contrebasse strings and haven't found anything better for my needs. It sounds like a guitar - a bass guitar - which is what I am going for and projects better than anything I've found. The problem with them is the longest version they offer is 810 mm (32") and they don't come with ball ends so you need to work around that problem. I made a false anchor block I slide in the body and feed the strings out through the pin block. Slows down string changes but the sound is worth it. It doesn't produce a lot of volume, but the tone plugged in is amazing.

The tone unplugged is amazing too. I don't understand the problem with the string length. I have Savarez on my 34" Dean. Sufficient length and to spare. The lack of ball ends, as you have discovered, requires "creative solutions."

 

[carl h.]

The tone unplugged is amazing too. I don't understand the problem with the string length. I have Savarez on my 34" Dean. Sufficient length and to spare. The lack of ball ends, as you have discovered, requires "creative solutions."

My Dean is a 32" 4 string and my others are 5 string, so no dice trying them there.

 

[Mudfuzz]

My Dean is a 32" 4 string and my others are 5 string, so no dice trying them there.

Actually, Contrabass Guitar string comes in 4 and 6 string [like a bass VI, no low Bs that I have seen] sets, Labella, savarez and hannabach all make different sets.
I have a set on my ovation/aplause which is a fan braced instrument and it sound great for what it is. I also am in the process of a major repair on a Aria 6 string contrabass classical guitar [we will just say someone dropped the thing and then left the strings on at tension for who knows how long] that I picked up cheap, no those things are cool but they all have frets

 

[John Chambliss]

I bought a Michael Kelly Dragonfly 4 fretless ABG a number of years ago hoping that it would be nice to take along when I was traveling for work. It is okay for practicing, but doesn't really work acoustically when accompanying others unless amplified. It is a pretty instrument though - may have to keep it as a display item that I pickup and play whenever.

@carl h. I may have to try the "false anchor block" trick. I'm wondering about the approximate size of the block?

 

[s0707]

Godin also makes fretless basses. No experience with them, and obviously they need plugging in, but they might have the acoustic tone and seem feedback resistant.

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[AGCurry]

...with enough power to balance 6 amplified acoustics...

 

[mikeGJ]

Godin also makes fretless basses. No experience with them, and obviously they need plugging in, but they might have the acoustic tone and seem feedback resistant.

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Nice tone plugged in, can get "upright" sound, if properly amplified, but almost NO acoustic output.

Solo practice, yes, but inaudible next to an acoustic guitar.

What the OP seeks, does not exist, IMO.

I like the "top port" on some of the Breedloves, lets you at least hear yourself, essential for fretless play.

 

[aesopslyre]

What you're looking for doesn't exist, sorry.

I wouldn’t be so sure about that....Rigel Acusta and Chennel Arco fit the bill.

 

[mikeGJ]

View attachment 4156076 View attachment 4156083
I wouldn’t be so sure about that....Rigel Acusta and Chennel Arco fit the bill.

Like every other offering in this thread, 34" mensure, "Jumbo" or "super Jumbo" guitar body, not enough acoustic volume as a result.

Chennel Arco shipped with a pickup installed by default, IIRC. Looks good, can play on an extended endpin (like the Takamine), curved fretboard too, but with limited unamplified output due to physics.

 

[AGCurry]

Like every other offering in this thread, 34" mensure, "Jumbo" or "super Jumbo" guitar body, not enough acoustic volume as a result.

Chennel Arco shipped with a pickup installed by default, IIRC. Looks good, can play on an extended endpin (like the Takamine), curved fretboard too, but with limited unamplified output due to physics.

But it's not a guitar...
and the other instrument pictured is not fretless.