Double Bass Fretless Acoustic Bass Guitar?

[bcamp]

My experience with open mic nights and acoustic instruments is that you are always competing to be heard over room noise, not the other instruments. If the room is too loud, the amp is absolute and then you can pick any instrument you want as I think one piezo pretty much quacks like any other piezo, no matter what instrument it's mounted. If you're lucky enough to have a good room, people are politely listening and you can go truly acoustic then you're living right.

So, assuming you've got a nice room and the goal is to sound like a full sized, acoustically played, double bass then that's what you have to play. No other instruments, including miniature sized double basses, will ever compare tone wise.

If the goal is just to hang in the occasional picking circle or open mic session, go with the Tacoma Thunderchief. And have some fun paulhenry... go with frets! It is a guitar after all. I bought a Thunderchief new in 2006 and a fretted Thunderchief with phosphor bronze strings will do you just fine. If you want it louder use a 1.14 mm pick. Will you dominate the group. No. Will you be heard by the other musicians and have fun. Definitely guaranteed. And that is what this is about, right?

 

[paulhenry]

. . . . If the goal is just to hang in the occasional picking circle or open mic session, go with the Tacoma Thunderchief. And have some fun paulhenry... go with frets! It is a guitar after all. I bought a Thunderchief new in 2006 and a fretted Thunderchief with phosphor bronze strings will do you just fine. If you want it louder use a 1.14 mm pick. Will you dominate the group. No. Will you be heard by the other musicians and have fun. Definitely guaranteed. And that is what this is about, right?

Exactly. I've had a LOT of good advice and real interesting instrument recommendations. I've followed up on all of them. Of course, the trick is, finding one to actually play. I live in the Bay Area (SF/Oakland), so once things start to open up a bit more, I'll probably take all these recommendations and head into the cities to start some serious looking.

It's kind of a moving target in my fickle little brain. I want it all, of course, but as a previous poster has said, to paraphrase: "pick two." (if that). I want Volume AND Tone AND Portability, but of course I will compromise. I will say though, that I really like the "wah" of a fretless instrument. Perhaps a de-fretted Thunderchief? Hmmmmm.....

 

[bcamp]

I love the "Mwaa' too. I think that's part of what drew a lot of us to the double bass. If you can find a good condition, fretless Thunderchief, buy it. They can be rarer than hen's teeth. I couldn't find a fretless when I decided I needed a ABG but, honestly, the fretted instrument has given me immeasurable pleasure for many years.

 

[VictorW126]

I was debating whether to cross post this, but I want to start on the DB forum because, well, that's mostly what I play.

Pre-pandemic, I went to jams and open mics regularly to play with other folks, and sometimes it's a lot of miles to travel and you only end up playing one or two songs. So I started looking for a decent fretless acoustic bass guitar. My first wish is to find one that is as loud as I can get so that I could potentially not bring an amp along. My secondary wish is a bass that has a sound that is, at least, suggestive of an upright.

The best instrument I've tried so far is the Breedlove Solo Jumbo CE fretless bass. It could be louder, but it has a pickup if necessary, and at $800, great bang for the buck.

Any thoughts?

I have spent several years looking for the same solution. At the moment I have a Taylor big acoustic bass. It is twice as compact, twice as light and twice as quiet as a double bass. To be honest, I only use it for the sake of its looks. Fender looks weird when you play old folk songs. I have two compact amps, and tons of wires. Although this bass sounds louder than other acoustic guitars, it is not loud enough. As a result, I really regret that a few years ago I sold another acoustic bass, which was much more convenient for my tasks. It was smaller and more comfortable than Taylor and also needed an amplifier.
An important note - ABG is not a vertical bass. This is a serious problem.
Another direction of search is the use of the EUB. It also needs amplification, but it is vertical bass. It might look a little weird for folk music, but it's better than EBG. As a result, I came to the conclusion that nothing can replace the double bass. The complexity of its transportation is our feature and our way of life.

 

[Sam Reese]

I've had Martin (fretted) and Guild (fretted) ABGs and an NS Design EUB and sold them all. The acoustic upright bass seems to be my only solution.

 

[turf3]

If you think a Fender bass looks weird playing certain types of acoustic music, why not get a dark sunburst hollow body bass, like the Hofner Club bass for example? Of course the double bass is the best choice when transport, load-in, and space on stage permit it.

 

[GretschWretch]

A fractional, i.e., 1/4 double bass checks pretty much all the boxes. It is loud enough to be played unamplified, it is far more easily portable than a 3/4 DB (actually it does not take up much more space than a Dean ABG in its hardshell case), and it can be played sitting, across the lap. I am speaking from experience here.

There are some ergonomic and comfort issues that must be accommodated, but these things are not deal-breakers.

 

[paulhenry]

I have spent several years looking for the same solution. At the moment I have a Taylor big acoustic bass. It is twice as compact, twice as light and twice as quiet as a double bass. To be honest, I only use it for the sake of its looks. . . . An important note - ABG is not a vertical bass. This is a serious problem. . . I came to the conclusion that nothing can replace the double bass. The complexity of its transportation is our feature and our way of life.

I am continually impressed by the thoughtfulness and diversity of the contributions to almost any question here at TB. It's interesting that you should mention looks, because I have been drawn to the Furch 5-string ABG. There are a few examples of the fretted Furch online, and dang, I like the looks of it, and the sound does not suck. That's my level of expectation for ABG. So I'm pondering one of two possible scenarios (at the moment. This changes daily). One is the Furch in a fretless 5-string format. The other is getting a "smaller," DB, like a 1/4. I have also seen a couple of YouTubes about "converting," a cello. This means, I think, restringing, replacing pegs with tuning machines, and moving the bridge and soundpost. This appeals to me as a tinkerer. In my relatively normal and boring past, I aspired to string instrument repair and am familiar with the tools and techniques.
The idea of an EUB and a small battery-powered amp is also appealing, and has the added benefit of giving my OCD-prone brain even more to spin out about. Verticality is not so important to me, because, in the interest of full disclosure, I have to admit to my fellow DBers that I also play a fair amount of fingerstyle guitar, due to my sad history as a singer/songwriter. But I'm in recovery now.

 

[Sam Reese]

You are a brave and forthright soul...

sad history as a singer/songwriter. But I'm in recovery now.

 

[paulhenry]

You are a brave and forthright soul...

OMG, and I could show you pictures. Oh the shame. Oh, the mullet. . . .

 

[GretschWretch]

I am continually impressed by the thoughtfulness and diversity of the contributions to almost any question here at TB. It's interesting that you should mention looks, because I have been drawn to the Furch 5-string ABG. There are a few examples of the fretted Furch online, and dang, I like the looks of it, and the sound does not suck. That's my level of expectation for ABG. So I'm pondering one of two possible scenarios (at the moment. This changes daily). One is the Furch in a fretless 5-string format. The other is getting a "smaller," DB, like a 1/4. I have also seen a couple of YouTubes about "converting," a cello. This means, I think, restringing, replacing pegs with tuning machines, and moving the bridge and soundpost. This appeals to me as a tinkerer. In my relatively normal and boring past, I aspired to string instrument repair and am familiar with the tools and techniques.
The idea of an EUB and a small battery-powered amp is also appealing, and has the added benefit of giving my OCD-prone brain even more to spin out about. Verticality is not so important to me, because, in the interest of full disclosure, I have to admit to my fellow DBers that I also play a fair amount of fingerstyle guitar, due to my sad history as a singer/songwriter. But I'm in recovery now.

First, I would like to point out that sad and singer/songwriter is redundant. Secondly, go with the 1/4 DB. Nix on the cello. Even with its larger body when compared to an ABG, the voice is much too mid-rangey. Youtube up the Dead South for examples. A 1/4 DB at least sounds like a bass.

 

[Sam Reese]

paulhenry, I too am guilty on all counts. I'm sorry.

 

[paulhenry]

First, I would like to point out that sad and singer/songwriter is redundant. Secondly, go with the 1/4 DB. Nix on the cello. Even with its larger body when compared to an ABG, the voice is much too mid-rangey. Youtube up the Dead South for examples. A 1/4 DB at least sounds like a bass.

No, there are actually happy-ish singer/songwriters. Take Richard Thompson, for example. Okay, he's actually Mr. Doom & Gloom, BUT he makes ME happy. . . . ish. And, though I agree with you on the 1/4 vs cello as far as sound is concerned, it's a matter of intent. If I need THAT sound, I'll take my DB. The whole point of my original post was something DB-ish enough, but PORTABLE. And, I know, there are as many opinions about what "ish" means as there are posters at TB. More, in fact, if you account for multiple personalities and fickleness.

 

[VictorW126]

... So I'm pondering one of two possible scenarios (at the moment. This changes daily). One is the Furch in a fretless 5-string format. The other is getting a "smaller," DB, like a 1/4. I have also seen a couple of YouTubes about "converting," a cello. This means, I think, restringing, replacing pegs with tuning machines, and moving the bridge and soundpost. This appeals to me as a tinkerer. In my relatively normal and boring past, I aspired to string instrument repair and am familiar with the tools and techniques.
The idea of an EUB and a small battery-powered amp is also appealing, and has the added benefit of giving my OCD-prone brain even more to spin out about. Verticality is not so important to me, because, in the interest of full disclosure, I have to admit to my fellow DBers that I also play a fair amount of fingerstyle guitar, due to my sad history as a singer/songwriter. But I'm in recovery now.

I want to warn you that 5-string acoustic bass g. may not be the best choice. I had two five-string ABG - a fretless M.K. Dragonfly and a good fretted homemade bass (solid wood). The fifth string on both did not sound good. This string requires strict control when playing with an amp, otherwise feedback will occur. I sold both of these basses without ever being able to use them.
This applies to a string tuned to low B. I have not tried a high C.

As for the smaller double bass, this is the old way of many bassists. But for some reason it is not generally accepted. Be aware that small bass can be more difficult to play. It depends on individual characteristics and habits. This is due to the thickness and width of the neck, strings and body positions. I actually dream of a good compact 1/4 or 1/5 bass, but my sober mind tells me that it won't be that good!

When it comes to choosing a bass guitar and a suitable amp, there are many options. For example, the Godin A4 looks and sounds quite similar to a ABG, but has no issues with recall. The amps can be discussed endlessly. This is the other side. I assume that if you are looking for vertical bass, then horizontal bass will not replace it.

By the way, in most cases I am invited to play the double bass because of its appearance, not its sound (I'm talking about unprofessional playing). Here, nothing can replace the classic full double bass. Often people just want to see him in their club or at a party.

 

[eerbrev]

My "Solve" for this is to have an old classical guitar that I tune like a cello - CGDA. I call it my "Campfire bass". It keeps up with other instruments well enough, and I can play chords on it when I want to. I also have a short scale electric bass tuned like a Basse de Violon, Bb-F-c-g, which is a ton of fun.

This is probably a lukewarm take, but even for most economically priced 3/4 size basses, the last really "good" note is a low G. Everything else is ... fine. There's a reason you could still buy Three-stringed basses from Boosey and Hawkes until after WW1 - They're loud, and honestly, you don't miss all that much. When you play a unison E with a guitar, your note sounds more full and deep in comparison.

I guess my opinion is like ... you need to change the way you're playing the instrument, and what you expect out of it, if you want the volume you're looking for. Don't expect a note lower than G or A, don't expect fast notes to be loud. I wonder if anyone's tried out just using three strings on their ABG to see how it was volume-wise?

 

[coyote1]

Forget about going ampless. Physics will defeat you every time.

People get good sounds with fretless ABG and tapewound strings. "Suggestive of an upright" is a good way to describe that sound.

You can get closer to the suggestion of upright by using orchestral upright strings - if the instrument can handle them.

 

[paulhenry]

I'm on pause in my search. Mostly because of economic circumstances brought on by the pandemic. I was looking into resonator ABGs, because they are loud. I like them, even though their tone is all their own. They are also noticeably heavier. And, I priced a custom 5-string fretless build from National (they are nice folks), and it was upwards of $4 grand, which is too rich for me right now.

 

[kesslari]

I am continually impressed by the thoughtfulness and diversity of the contributions to almost any question here at TB. It's interesting that you should mention looks, because I have been drawn to the Furch 5-string ABG. There are a few examples of the fretted Furch online, and dang, I like the looks of it, and the sound does not suck. That's my level of expectation for ABG. So I'm pondering one of two possible scenarios (at the moment. This changes daily). One is the Furch in a fretless 5-string format. The other is getting a "smaller," DB, like a 1/4. I have also seen a couple of YouTubes about "converting," a cello. This means, I think, restringing, replacing pegs with tuning machines, and moving the bridge and soundpost. This appeals to me as a tinkerer. In my relatively normal and boring past, I aspired to string instrument repair and am familiar with the tools and techniques.
The idea of an EUB and a small battery-powered amp is also appealing, and has the added benefit of giving my OCD-prone brain even more to spin out about. Verticality is not so important to me, because, in the interest of full disclosure, I have to admit to my fellow DBers that I also play a fair amount of fingerstyle guitar, due to my sad history as a singer/songwriter. But I'm in recovery now.

The Furch is lovely. Have you checked out the Warwick Alien? Steve Bailey has a demo on yt, of course he's Steve Bailey and would probably sound great on a banana strung with spiderwebs...
I'm considering one myself. I recognize the limitations, volume-wise, but for me the primary purpose is "take it outside on nice days when I have a 10 min practice break" so "volume louder than an unplugged solidbody bass" is a win for me.

 

[coyote1]

A fractional, i.e., 1/4 double bass checks pretty much all the boxes. It is loud enough to be played unamplified, it is far more easily portable than a 3/4 DB (actually it does not take up much more space than a Dean ABG in its hardshell case), and it can be played sitting, across the lap. I am speaking from experience here.

There are some ergonomic and comfort issues that must be accommodated, but these things are not deal-breakers.

The 1/4 misses on fingerboard access. Getting only to 7th position before getting snagged on the neck heel? On a relatively small neck? That IMO is the main deficiency addressed by instruments like the TB10 and Marcustico, if you’re willing to always have amplification.

A 1/4 with a cutaway? That would be wonderful.

 

[GretschWretch]

The 1/4 misses on fingerboard access. Getting only to 7th position before getting snagged on the neck heel? On a relatively small neck? That IMO is the main deficiency addressed by instruments like the TB10 and Marcustico, if you’re willing to always have amplification.

A 1/4 with a cutaway? That would be wonderful.

I cannot argue with you about the limited access, but my context for using the 1/4 DB is for folk music only, where you rarely need to go above the 7th position. The "relatively small neck" is about the size of an EB neck, and the mensure is only 1 1/4" more than on a Fender. And with a little dexterity it is possible to snag the octave with a pinky finger.

But if you plan on playing 7th through 12th a lot, I would suggest you have selected the wrong instrument for the music you wish to play.