Fretless boards: harder than CA or Epoxy, but still manageable? Does it exist?

[Allegrus]

How? If you buy a $700 fretless bass, ...

I don't have that answer ... but if the cause of what is REALLY happening here is 'soft' fretboards, you have to admit it's rather unreasonable for customers to complain to the guy has nothing to do with building the bass in the first place. Is there a solution to this? Yes ... you replace the fretboard because I don't care WHAT bass this is ... 'soft' fretboards are unacceptable.

To be frank, I think price is already a good indicator of the quality of build/materials and in your example, $700 is (for me) a range that indicates you might have a higher probability of some problems with those things. Nothing surplants Caveat Emptor in a free market economy ... if a person isn't aware enough of what makes a quality bass or what good materials are, their best indicator of that is going to be branding and price.

 

[dkelley]

I don't have that answer ... but if the cause of what is REALLY happening here is 'soft' fretboards, you have to admit it's rather unreasonable for customers to complain to the guy has nothing to do with building the bass in the first place.

To be frank, I think price is already a good indicator of the quality of build/materials and in your example, $700 is (for me) a range that indicates you might have a higher probability of some problems with those things. Nothing surplants Caveat Emptor in a free market economy ... if a person isn't aware enough of what makes a quality bass or what good materials are, their best indicator of that is going to be branding and price.

interesting. You could be right... but maybe it's relative to the buying budget.

Still, to me, a $700 new fretless bass guitar should give me a solid, working fretless bass guitar that can handle daily playing for many years without issues.

Entry level is much less than $700. Professional musicians play axes that cost $700 to $1000 all the time. I play some instruments that cost much less.

This is significant money - not squier affinity starter stuff.


on sweetwater, all roughly $700-ish:

JBassPFLPPWT --fender-player-series-fretless-jazz-bass-polar-white-with-pau-ferro-fingerboard

SCore5LANG --spector-spectorcore-5-fretless-aged-natural-gloss?cond=SCore5LANGd1

SRF705BBF --ibanez-workshop-srf705-brown-burst-flat-fretless

SRH500FNNF --ibanez-srh500f-fretless-natural-browned-burst-flat

I will probably need to remove these references above, but just pointing out examples of brand new solid name fretless basses. I would assume every one is a great instrument, only a matter of preference between them. If I wanted a new fretless, I wouldn't think "uh oh, I'd better steer clear".

 

[CatchaCuda]

...issues with the product he's using, or the application method..

Until proven otherwise, I'm agreeing with this.

 

[dwizum]

@Wizzu - if these basses are all recently new, and failing so thoroughly, have any of your customers attempted a warranty claim or factory service?

 

[Allegrus]

interesting. You could be right... but maybe it's relative to the buying budget.

Sure, you're budget clearly determines what you can afford. Whether we think $700 is a 'quality' instrument is a matter of opinion that isn't really worth the discussion IMO. Still, that doesn't detract from the point I'm trying to make: It's the buyer's responsibility to ensure they understand what they are purchasing, regardless if it's $700 or $7000 bass. How they do that you ask? That's up to them ... but it IS their responsibility as a buyer. Caveat Emptor ... ALWAYS.

 

[Chrisk-K]

Hmm...six customers have a death grip to damage the rosewood fretboard in a short period. What kind of customers does the OP deal with? Does he specialize in taking care of MMA or WWF bass players or what?

 

[JimChjones]

When you say epoxy do you mean just a thin layer of resin, or something more sophisticated? You can radically alter the properties of the material with the fillers you put in it. For ultimate hardness I'd be looking at a good deal of silica in the mix.

 

[Max Bogosity]

Wouldn’t this kind of repair cost approximately as much as a replacement neck? That might be the more appropriate solution for a lower priced instrument.

 

[okcrum]

It is possible to make your own wood hardener by dissolving plexiglass in acetone. That lets you tailor the consistency for best penetration.

 

[Matthijs]

With the tape-dam method and epoxy you’d build up a layer that’s thick enough to withstand anything, even with chipboard as a fingerboard. And it also creates the opportunity to do a really good shaping of the fingerboard. Make sure to use the right stuff (actual pouring resin, not floor paint) and make sure if it adhers to the wood. Otherwise you need to seal it first.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

The coating that Pedulla used to use on their Buzz basses is incredibly hard, a Polyester of some sort. I know it was spray-applied because I had Pedulla apply some to a Warmoth fretless Jazz neck back in the late 80's, when they still did a little bit of custom work. I've had rounds on it ever since, and it shows very little wear. I assume it was some kind of two part reactive finish, which might disqualify it on Ease of Use grounds, but that stuff was bulletproof. Maybe somebody out there knows what the formulation was. Another option reputed to be extremely hard is Solarez, or one of the other UV activated Polyester finishes used on skateboards and surfboards. That has the advantage of being stupid-easy to apply, brush on and carry it out in the sunlight for a few minutes. I don't know of anybody on TB who has used it for fingerboards, here's a video of a guy using it for body finish, Highline Guitars. He seems like somebody you could contact directly for his opinion on hardness.

 

[TeeAre]

When customers come in with concerns that their roundwound strings are eating their fretboards, do you point out that other strings (flats, pressurewounds) are much easier on fretboard wood? I understand this might cost you some business, but I am curious if all or any of these customers have tried bright flats or pressurewounds and still insisted on using roundwounds.

Sounds like you're in a tough spot -- I'm sorry I can't be more helpful.

 

[nilorius]

The best wood for fretless fingerboard is ebony, but still, like others, it will get damaged - depending the years, days and hours playing. As for other wood and epoxy coated, it can be done more times simultaneously, so it it will make your fretboard harder, but change the sound a bit.

 

[vvvmmm]

I'd be issuing a disclaimer re "cheaper" basses, as in, "My experience is ..." Damn, that sux. I wish ya good luck in finding a solution!

 

[sawzalot]

I would think if the board is *dented* then the wood is too soft. If it it *filed away* then it's potentially player error. It should be pretty easy to see. It sounds to me if the CA is cracked then it must be the former, because otherwise the CA would be filed away before the wood got filed away. If that's the case, I don't know of any coating that would really suffice. Sort of like putting a hard finish on a soft pine board, it's gonna get dents where the same finish on red oak wouldn't.

 

[tpa]

When you say epoxy do you mean just a thin layer of resin, or something more sophisticated? You can radically alter the properties of the material with the fillers you put in it. For ultimate hardness I'd be looking at a good deal of silica in the mix.

I agree with this. Special fillers for special puposes. Just consider the nut filling trick. You dont use cyanoacrylate alone, to get the right property you use a powder (baking soda) as well. I dont know of any filled epoxies which are clear - which might be a showstopper in this case. Were it me, I would probably visit a local industrial floor coater or shipyard for advice. They should know their epoxies.

 

[oren]

My Sire V7 fretless came with a hard glossy coat over the fingerboard, and my impression was that all the Sire fretless basses have that. Is that not the case, or did your customer remove the coating?

I use flats on mine (because I like the sound and feel) and have seen no discernible wear in four years of use. YMMV, of course!

 

[mikewalker]

....

Question is really - why is there such junk wood going into fretless basses these days? ...

Planned obsolence, perhaps?? Why is my brand new $1000 cel-phone designed to be tossed in a landfill in 3-4 years, after its operating system becomes "unsupported"? Is this "the way of the world"? Or...

 

[Kael]

I've epoxied around 10 boards. I've always used mirror coat epoxy. Applied multiple layers and let each dry till I had around 8 or so layers (overkill) then used a radiused sanding block to shape that board. Finally polished it up. Worked very well. The mirror coat needed a couple weeks to properly setup IMHO. Mostly because I would always dilute the epoxy with a bit of denatured alcohol to help avoid air bubbles in the epoxy. Never got a mirror shine, but I prefer a more matte like finish. A little more time with steel wool and I could've gotten that finish most likely.

Last board I rehabbed was a trashed board. When I was done I discovered it looked almost as good as new. Decided my next fretless I would try bare wood since I could always epoxy it later. Almost ten years in on this bare wood board no and now appreciable wear as I don't do anything stupid like bend the strings laterally. I am pretty sure I'm done with epoxying boards now. Bare wood sounds and feels better. At the rate I'm going I'll probably need to dress this board in another 6 or 7 years maybe. Then I'll be good for another decade or so.

 

[groooooove]

pat wilkins in california did a neck for me. I forget the actual material, but it was nearly indestructible.

I think it was $200? It was a while ago. I'd recommend his work highly.