The
Exactly. As long as the instrument doesn't have true temperament frets. Invalid Link Removed
Exactly. As long as the instrument doesn't have true temperament frets. Invalid Link Removed
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Fretless out of tune?
- Thread starter Roger DeLarge
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I practice a lot by playing along with oldies by ear - but I really dislike when the recordings are not to A=440. I usually pull the songs into my DAW (or into my Tascam trainer) where I can use vari-speed to slow down or speed up the track to get it in tune. Most of those old recordings that were not A=440 was a post production decision to speed up or slow down the tempo and vari-speed on tape was the easy way to do it.
I am pretty new to fretless and I have read many posts suggesting using the open strings occasionally as a reference point - so that is why I try to get the track in tune with my bass first. (then I turn the lights out and use my ear)
Now I'm learning so many oldies this way - I'm going to have to start a cover band.
I am pretty new to fretless and I have read many posts suggesting using the open strings occasionally as a reference point - so that is why I try to get the track in tune with my bass first. (then I turn the lights out and use my ear)
Now I'm learning so many oldies this way - I'm going to have to start a cover band.
Great tips! Funny thing is, I heard Teen Town for the first time yesterday. Totally blew me away! Found tab, tried the first line, gave up.. That song is insane, and what jaco does on the live version.. Its almost not human drool
If you're looking for some really melodic and tasteful fretless playing in a pop setting I'd check out Jaco's playing on the Joni Mitchell live album "Shadows and Light". The fretless really comes alive on these tunes.
OK, I saw many mentions of setting intonation. I have a slightly different take, which my teacher imparted to me. Set your intonation by comparing the harmonic at the 12th fret with the fretted note, but put your finger right on the fret line so it's in the middle of your finger. Then you use the same method for all the other notes, right on the fret line.
He also mentioned the dot markers should be between the frets, because they'll be in the same relative position on fretted vs. fretless.
He also mentioned the dot markers should be between the frets, because they'll be in the same relative position on fretted vs. fretless.
I bought (and still have) a cheap chinese 4 string fretless - the lines are all in the wrong place. I think they took a fretted bass, and used the centre between each fret as the measurement. It actually sounds pretty good, but you have to ignore the lines and play between them which really confuses.
So many classic recordings are not absolute in pitch. Pretty well the 60s and 70s recording we know well. I play lots of Beach Boys and Carpenters and they've been varispeeded intentionally. The Beach Boys stuff often at really annoying amounts of out of tune-ness. Half way between two semi-tones is common. Re-recording these songs to produce show tracks, means playing along with the track is a pain. I have to usually pitch shift the original back to something 'solid'.
So many classic recordings are not absolute in pitch. Pretty well the 60s and 70s recording we know well. I play lots of Beach Boys and Carpenters and they've been varispeeded intentionally. The Beach Boys stuff often at really annoying amounts of out of tune-ness. Half way between two semi-tones is common. Re-recording these songs to produce show tracks, means playing along with the track is a pain. I have to usually pitch shift the original back to something 'solid'.
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Find the part on that Gary Willis video where he talks about finger placement and intonation on the fretless. Actually you should learn to do everything he teaches on that old video. His right hand Muting, soft playing with the ramp - so precise, so efficient.
Quickest way to lose a gig:
"hi guys, I just bought a fretless bass!"
"hi guys, I just bought a fretless bass!"
Played a gig (a loooong time ago) where another band's bassist proudly announced that he played fretless because he thought tuning was hard.
Yes, you could figure that out by his playing.
Yes, you could figure that out by his playing.
That's so true. Just started with a new group and mentioned that I had a fretless. I talked about using it for my first gig and you could see the band leader starting to sweat it out.
As in all things musical, the ears rule.
That said, the lines are precisely where they should be. The misunderstanding that we all have in our communications here on TB regarding fretless approach has a lot to do with how our points of reference on the fretted bass developed. I played for a long time on fretted basses targeting the string stop right behind the fret to ensure that the stop was as complete as possible. I remember watching one of Chuck Rainey's instructional vids and realizing that other players were targeting the middle between the frets. So, when I did go to fretless, I was right away targeting the stop right at the line. It felt natural to me. But, I've had very good friends who are accomplished players unable to come to grips with the lined fingerboard, because they were targeting the stop midway between the lines.
That difference in approach is wholly unrelated to the intonation of the bass or the accuracy of the line placement.
Some players just use the midway point between the frets as a target for the string stop. A player with that approach is going to struggle with a lined fingerboard. We can talk all day about correctness of approach; but, it is enough for me that Chuck Rainey targets that spot between the frets. I never targeted that spot; so, the lines are not an issue for me. This is strictly a personal preference thing.
That said, the lines are precisely where they should be. The misunderstanding that we all have in our communications here on TB regarding fretless approach has a lot to do with how our points of reference on the fretted bass developed. I played for a long time on fretted basses targeting the string stop right behind the fret to ensure that the stop was as complete as possible. I remember watching one of Chuck Rainey's instructional vids and realizing that other players were targeting the middle between the frets. So, when I did go to fretless, I was right away targeting the stop right at the line. It felt natural to me. But, I've had very good friends who are accomplished players unable to come to grips with the lined fingerboard, because they were targeting the stop midway between the lines.
That difference in approach is wholly unrelated to the intonation of the bass or the accuracy of the line placement.
Some players just use the midway point between the frets as a target for the string stop. A player with that approach is going to struggle with a lined fingerboard. We can talk all day about correctness of approach; but, it is enough for me that Chuck Rainey targets that spot between the frets. I never targeted that spot; so, the lines are not an issue for me. This is strictly a personal preference thing.
Jaco even practiced on a fretted bass most of the time for two reasons - consistent placement on the frets will translate to consistency on the fretless and the metal strings chew up a rosewood board over time. Frets last longer. Play as close to the frets as possible and your hand shape will be clean and disciplined on fretless.
In theory, great fretless playing can sound as clean and precise as a fretted board. It is just more to learn. Make your fingers the frets.
In theory, great fretless playing can sound as clean and precise as a fretted board. It is just more to learn. Make your fingers the frets.
hat's the secret--I use the lines as a guide to start, but use my ears more--the more you practice & play--especially with others (or even recordings), the more this helps.Wow, that actually made alot of sense! So its actually supposed to be like this, better start using my ears instead of my eyes I guess
For some oldies they sometimes also decided they wanted something a bit more uptempo and ran the tape a bit faster. Plus tuning of instruments to each other, or even themselves, was a technique only discovered in 1973 as far as I can tell
D
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Flatwounds don't damage fingerboards, not on my basses anyway.
Personally I practice on fretless and usually play fretless (I only have one fretted bass)... imo the best way to get your intonation reliable is to stick with fretless as much as possible.
