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Fretless out of tune?

#23
jmlee said:
Chin up! We were *all* awful at fretless once upon a time.
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n1as said:
And some, like me, remain fairly bad
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It is so fun, even when it's wrong!

(Also: I built my fretless out of parts destined for the trash heap and I haven't really figured out the best intonation yet. It lends a "random" flavor that adds to the challenge.
 
#25
brianrost said:
I find playing along to out of tune songs on a fretless bass or string bass to be incredibly painful. Yes, I can play it in tune but my muscle memory gets all screwed up. My hand really does not want to play a note between F and F#. It will not help your intonation do this.
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How do you practice along to the radio if the songs aren't A440? Do you re-tune your bass during the first verse and then join in on the second verse, or something like that? Do you play out of tune with the song and tolerate the sonic clash? Or do you think playing along to the radio is not a useful exercise? Not trying to be argumentative; genuinely curious your opinion as I know you are an experienced player. :)

The point of the exercise I recommended earlier (jamming along to random songs on the radio) is not to improve muscle memory. Rather, it is to improve the ear (which then in turn improves intonation).

Being able to play "in between the lines" on a fretless bass is also an incredibly useful skill to have if you ever play open mics or the like, where you need to back multiple acts who may or may not be tuned to the same pitch standard.
 
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#26
When I started out on fretless, my sound suddenly got better when I payed careful attention to proper intonation. My fretless is the unlined Wishbass in my avatar. Turned out the side dots were in the right places after all, once the bridge was in the right position. :)

Otto
 
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#29
bolophonic said:
I'm going to try this. I am new (and terrible) at fretless.
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But.. With alot of practice you will get good!!!

Think about it.. But only while learning... Try to get your muscle memory to do the work for you and then you can " not think about it" ( as much).

I have played fretless off and on for about 5 years (?)... Love the freedom when I do.... Feels better to play imho.

Don't give up... And practice....practice ...practice.

Good luck!
 
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#31
When you play between frets on a fretted, the string making contact with the fret closest to the bridge is what produces the note... Not your finger location. So, on a fretless, you'd play where the fret would be (the line). Doesn't really matter if you look at first, to get the grasp. If you're playing from muscle memory of a fretted basses, you'll be hard pressed to hit your mark. Just look at first and then practice without looking after you get a good hold of the concept of where your fingers need to be. Your muscles will learn in time..
 
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#33
Roger DeLarge said:
Hi! I just bought my first fretless that is lined and I just can't figure this cheap bass out! My problem is that when I tune the open strings perfectly, the rest of the neck is out off tune when I play between the lined frets. Which means I have to play on the lines to make it sound in tune. I figure this could mean that the lines are wrong and they should be painted slightly up the neck. But is there any solution to this? Tighten the neck relief or something?
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Adjust your bridge, your intonation is out.
 
#34
I've always found intonation adjustment as pretty pointless! Fret the octave, touch the harmonic and adjust the intonation to make them the same. If you have no frets, then the intonation merely lines up the line with the finger. On my two fretlesses, the usual few mm that are so critical on a fretted instrument make little difference on the fretless. My first rule of fretless is practice. I find that the right practice is as has been said - just playing along and getting better at landing your fingers in the right places. If you want to really have to work - try 70's disco with octave jumps - that's a real killer!
 
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#36
I set intonation with a guitar-capo... If you are lucky enough to have one left at your house by a guitar playing friend. -they are always leaving stuff everywhere.

Anyway, as you are already now aware, it should be intimated to the line, not behind it. Put the capo on the line and set your intonation. - it's probably fine as is.

Also, might I recommend one of my own favorite fretless exercise tunes, Star Spangled Banner.

I know many people are suggesting you approach it exactly as you would a fretted bass, and that's fine. But I'm sure you want to play some singing tones fretless stuff too, right? I mean, isn't that why you got the damn thing in the first place.
...So you've gotta learn some melodies.

Star Spangled Banner is a great place to start and it's also a great tune to have in your bag of tricks just in case you are ever asked to play it in a pinch.
 
#37
I still make sure my fretless is intonated right when playing at the 12th position. I also like to keep a low action. I think the best chance of learning to play in tune is to have an accurate instrument to start with. When you get good enough, you can adjust yourself to play just about anything.

Yes it really screws with me when songs on the radio (or some even on albums) are out of tune (for example the original Layla). On my tape players I put permanent access to the speed adjustment pot since I have 700+ tapes to practice to. On a fretless, I can fake it as long as I avoid open strings. But still, if it's off it messes with my head because pitches are associated with different feelings and if I'm in between it just seems wrong even though I can play it accurately. I think Layla was meant to be in C# considering the melancholy song it is, rather than the bright sunny happy sound of C.

I like playing the fretless better and the sound of it, even when not sliding around, just the dynamics of the notes. Doesn't matter if the song originally had a fretted bass.

Octave jumps are one of the main advantages for the 6 string for me. The tough ones for me are some low songs in F minor or F# major, because of the wide spacing and you don't get much for open strings. Like "My Town" by Patty Smyth. My long time playing uncle told me to practice stretching my fingers apart every day. It did help. I also started playing scales over and over early on, that helped too.
 
#38
Roger DeLarge said:
Hi! I just bought my first fretless that is lined and I just can't figure this cheap bass out! My problem is that when I tune the open strings perfectly, the rest of the neck is out off tune when I play between the lined frets. Which means I have to play on the lines to make it sound in tune. I figure this could mean that the lines are wrong and they should be painted slightly up the neck. But is there any solution to this? Tighten the neck relief or something?
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Hope this helps: Invalid Link Removed

If you haven't heard of Willis:
 
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#39
Roger DeLarge said:
Hi! I just bought my first fretless that is lined and I just can't figure this cheap bass out! My problem is that when I tune the open strings perfectly, the rest of the neck is out off tune when I play between the lined frets. Which means I have to play on the lines to make it sound in tune. I figure this could mean that the lines are wrong and they should be painted slightly up the neck. But is there any solution to this? Tighten the neck relief or something?
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Rodger,
Hang in there, even though I've played Double Bass professionaly all my life, I find intonation on the fretless challenging. A Double Bass has a curved fingerboard which feels very different than the ones on a fretless bass. For me, it's easier to play a fretless instrument vertically than horizontally, so if you can tilt the kneck up a bit, that may help.

Good luck
 

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