- Jan 29, 2008
- 29,772
- 30,452
- Disclosures
- I like 5, 8, 10, and 12 string basses
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fretting hand thumb
- Thread starter Ric5
- Start date
I have pretty large hands and play 1.5" necks so I wrap my thumb and keep my wrist straight and wrap my thumb, guitar or bass, most of the time, both hands, especially when I use a pick. I limit bending my wrist as much as possible.
Never a muscle or tendon problem.
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It's bad to do it on guitar too. Just because Jimi did it doesn't mean it's good. But, on guitar it's easier to get away with it, and sometimes it's neccessary. Still, don't do it.
Wrapping your thumb over the neck is "good technique" on both guitar and bass. It's an effective method for muting unwanted vibrations on the E string. Many top players use this popular technique.
Try squeezing something (piece of foam, whatever) between your thumb and the rest of the fingers. Then try the same thing but instead of your thumb, use the thumb’s base. You will note that not only you have a weaker grip, but also that you disable other articulations that reduce your agility.
Anybody can and should play the way they please, specially if your name is Hendrix or a Wooten, but for most mortals that have not been awarded by innane amazing talent, it takes years of study to master the instrument.
Here is where properly positioning your hands plays a role: if you spent more than 5-10h a week playing, to avoid injury, some positions are better than others.
Anybody can and should play the way they please, specially if your name is Hendrix or a Wooten, but for most mortals that have not been awarded by innane amazing talent, it takes years of study to master the instrument.
Here is where properly positioning your hands plays a role: if you spent more than 5-10h a week playing, to avoid injury, some positions are better than others.
I agree it takes years of study to master the instrument. Do you think studying Hendrix and Wooten should be part of that curriculum, or would a student be wasting their time? If not Hendrix and Wooten, who would you recommend a student study instead? Which famous player in your opinion has the "best" technique?
On jazz guitar, the wrap over thumb is used to make certain chord voicings possible or easier.
On bass,, not sure. I dont do it. My fretting hand uses mix of thumb and arm pull to fret the strings. I shift with the thumb as the position. driver. I mute with my right hand. I use high action
.
On bass,, not sure. I dont do it. My fretting hand uses mix of thumb and arm pull to fret the strings. I shift with the thumb as the position. driver. I mute with my right hand. I use high action
.
- Jan 29, 2008
- 29,772
- 30,452
- Disclosures
- I like 5, 8, 10, and 12 string basses
So from what I know
Playing bass the thumb goes on the back of the neck for proper technique and for guitar wrapping the thumb around helps to bend strings.
Playing bass the thumb goes on the back of the neck for proper technique and for guitar wrapping the thumb around helps to bend strings.
Versatile players know there are no "proper" or "improper" techniques, only tools in the toolbox, which can be deployed situationally as dictated by the music. The best players tend to choose whichever technique sounds best in the moment, not the technique that looks prettiest. When you see a master player like Victor Wooten with his thumb over the neck, he is doing it on purpose, for a musical reason (such as to mute the E string when he's playing slap style, a technique he no doubt adopted from slap pioneers Louis Johnson and Larry Graham).
The majority of top-tier bassists are fluent with the thumb-over-the-neck technique and use it at least some of the time (when it makes musical sense). Thumb-over-the-neck is not a sloppy, forbidden, dangerous, improper technique, but rather a common, everyday, safe, permissible, used-by-the-majority technique. You have Mushroo's blessing to put your thumb wherever it is most comfortable for you, to make the sounds you want to hear.
The majority of top-tier bassists are fluent with the thumb-over-the-neck technique and use it at least some of the time (when it makes musical sense). Thumb-over-the-neck is not a sloppy, forbidden, dangerous, improper technique, but rather a common, everyday, safe, permissible, used-by-the-majority technique. You have Mushroo's blessing to put your thumb wherever it is most comfortable for you, to make the sounds you want to hear.
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Totally agree. Generally the thumb should go where it naturally wants/needs to. Having said that, the thumb over the top can be a bit limiting, but it is not going to cause any injury problems.
To my mind, a technique is "bad" if it (1) inhibits your ability to play what you want to be able to play (now); (2) inhibits your ability to improve in the future; and/or (3) increases the likelihood of injury over time. I'm troubled by the all-too-common statement that you should do "whatever works for you" because it seems to focus entirely on (1) without regard to either (2) or (3).
That said, I don't know whether fretting with the thumb is a "bad" technique or not, but those are the criteria by which I would judge.
That said, I don't know whether fretting with the thumb is a "bad" technique or not, but those are the criteria by which I would judge.
That is a very interesting question; given the phenomenal talent Hendrix/Wooten have, I would be more inclined to study their thinking process and decipher from which Gods they get the amazing music they channel through. If I knew something about how they do what they do, that would be an amazing breakthrough.
Now, lacking that amazing talent would incline me to learn by repetition; for that there are some people that are pretty amazing to use as references (and all alive!!!) such as Alain Caron, Evan Marien, Anthony Wellington, Tony Grey, Federico Malaman. Alain is too perfect for my taste, but an amazing example of learning how to control a 6 string beast note by note.
An amazing guitar player I recently discovered is Tim Miller, he blew my mind. In Piano, Hiromi, out of this world. All these examples let you see, behind their amazing playing, hundreds of hours of dedication.
Below I've attached a photo of Alain Caron using his thumb to mute the lowest string when he plays slap style (same technique used by Graham/Johnson/Wooten/Claypool/etc). I've never heard of any of the other players on your list, but I'll check them out. Any particular songs or albums you would recommend?
Do what you need to do to accomplish what you need to do.
That being said wrapping the thumb around over the neck prevents the fretting hand fingers from opening.
Keeping your thumb on the E do a G Major scale
Thumb on the back of the neck,they can open up.
Thumb over is for those who generally play "in the Box"
Within a scale form.
Those like me who don't do that tend to play open legato extensions of chord and scale forms.
Also this observation:Only four string players do this.
It's next to impossible to do this and play the D,G and C strings on a six stringer.
Unless you have fingers like this.
That being said wrapping the thumb around over the neck prevents the fretting hand fingers from opening.
Keeping your thumb on the E do a G Major scale
Thumb on the back of the neck,they can open up.
Thumb over is for those who generally play "in the Box"
Within a scale form.
Those like me who don't do that tend to play open legato extensions of chord and scale forms.
Also this observation:Only four string players do this.
It's next to impossible to do this and play the D,G and C strings on a six stringer.
Unless you have fingers like this.
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Playing well comes first. It's easier to learn to play well when you use proper/correct technique. Once you play quite well you're entitled to break the "rules" as you see fit. If you start out with cool guy technique you'd better have something special going for you (musically) because otherwise you're gonna sound like doo-doo and it's much harder to unlearn bad habits and then learn it right than it is to learn it right from the git-go.
Hi @gebass6, first off I want to say, I'm assuming that, by posting your "hand selfie" you are presenting it as an example for discussion. If my assumption is wrong, and you prefer not to have your playing critiqued, then I apologize and I will delete my comments.
When I compare your photo to Victor Wooten (post #5), Paul McCartney (post #11), or Alain Caron (post #14) it seems to me they are covering the same fretboard span as you, but with less effort and strain. Their fingers are flatter, less splayed out, and more naturally positioned. Also, they have more skin on the strings, which means better muting, so they don't have to use a scrunchie to dampen the unplayed strings.
I think that if you relaxed your shoulder, dropped your elbow, and re-positioned your thumb, that your fingers could fret the same notes without looking so tense and contorted.
Of course that's an unfair comparison, because Wooten, McCartney, and Caron are master musicians; I'll never be that good either! Hope you don't think I'm putting you down; just giving some honest, constructive feedback, since you were brave enough to post that photo.
If I did that it would put a bend in my wrist.Hi @gebass6, first off I want to say, I'm assuming that, by posting your "hand selfie" you are presenting it as an example for discussion. If my assumption is wrong, and you prefer not to have your playing critiqued, then I apologize and I will delete my comments.
When I compare your photo to Victor Wooten (post #5), Paul McCartney (post #11), or Alain Caron (post #14) it seems to me they are covering the same fretboard span as you, but with less effort and strain. Their fingers are flatter, less splayed out, and more naturally positioned. Also, they have more skin on the strings, which means better muting, so they don't have to use a scrunchie to dampen the unplayed strings.
I think that if you relaxed your shoulder, dropped your elbow, and re-positioned your thumb, that your fingers could fret the same notes without looking so tense and contorted.
Of course that's an unfair comparison, because Wooten, McCartney, and Caron are master musicians; I'll never be that good either! Hope you don't think I'm putting you down; just giving some honest, constructive feedback, since you were brave enough to post that photo.
Which is a no-no.
You also have to notice I'm playing an root/4 extension form.
They are not.
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I’ve tried wrapping the thumb over a couple of times and far from helping out I found it to make fretting more difficult.
