FRFR speaker watts: what is the amp equivalent?

[Pep]

And it's literally in the product name! At least on the Thomann website…

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I stand corrected and that definitely won’t do the job.

 

[direwolf333]

Electro-Voice ZLX-12P-G2 1,000W 12-inch Powered Speaker with Bluetooth is cheap and has frfr mode. Is it a tt800..... no but it will 100 percent feel right and get the gig done. It helps if the FOH has good subwoofer. You need a good DI but you should have that already.

 

[MCS4]

In my opinion, there is no single 12" speaker that will compete with a "loud" drummer plus other instruments by itself no matter how many watts you try to pump through it (setting aside the fact that a single speaker can only safely handle so many watts anyway), unless we are using a different definition of a loud drummer. Obviously if you have good PA support and monitoring it is a different story.

 

[JengDoe]

And it's literally in the product name! At least on the Thomann website…

It has extra DSP guitar features (IR) that you don’t need to use.

I was looking for an FRFR cabinet for bass a couple of days ago, and this one seems like the best option among the budget choices.
Unfortunately, it’s huge, and I’m looking for something smaller, around 5–8 kg.

 

[el murdoque]

In my opinion, there is no single 12" speaker that will compete with a "loud" drummer plus other instruments by itself no matter how many watts you try to pump through it (setting aside the fact that a single speaker can only safely handle so many watts anyway), unless we are using a different definition of a loud drummer. Obviously if you have good PA support and monitoring it is a different story.

The barefaced single 12" speakers will get you there. I know it's hard to believe, but I play with loud drummers and use one.

The room: Drummer has double kick drums, 5 toms and about 10 cymbals. One guitar player has a full stack with 100W tube head, the other plays a Kemper into a 2x12. PA is set to the brink of feedback, and everyone except for the singer is wearing ear plugs. I use a Tonehammer 500 with a Barefaced Super Mini.


But generally, I agree. A single 12" should not do the trick in a loud room.

 

[gtirard]

The barefaced single 12" speakers will get you there. I know it's hard to believe, but I play with loud drummers and use one.

The room: Drummer has double kick drums, 5 toms and about 10 cymbals. One guitar player has a full stack with 100W tube head, the other plays a Kemper into a 2x12. PA is set to the brink of feedback, and everyone except for the singer is wearing ear plugs. I use a Tonehammer 500 with a Barefaced Super Mini.


But generally, I agree. A single 12" should not do the trick in a loud room.

This.

My drummer don't play loud, but I know that I could burry him with my Barefaced 1x12 even if he did.
People have no idea how incredibly efficient these cabs are because it's almost impossible to try them before buying, but I'm sure they are comparable to a 2x12 or 4x10 from normal brands.
Not only it can be super loud, but it does it with ease, it never sound like if it's suffering.
I bought the Super Compact (12 kg, 600W), but I almost regret I didn't buy the Super Mini instead because I'm sure it would be more than enough for my needs, and it's smaller and ligther (8.5kg / 19lbs) than the Super Compact.

 

[gtirard]

It has extra DSP guitar features (IR) that you don’t need to use.

I was looking for an FRFR cabinet for bass a couple of days ago, and this one seems like the best option among the budget choices.
Unfortunately, it’s huge, and I’m looking for something smaller, around 5–8 kg.

It's not only about DSP, the main question is to know wether the driver is optimized for the low frequencies of a bass guitar?
Usually on Thomann, when gear is ok for bass and guitar, it is shown in both categories, and they say explicitely that you can use it for bass. Since they have "guitar" in the title, and it's in the "guitar" category, with no mention of bass guitars, I would stay away from it.
FRFR means full range flat response, it doesn't mean "ok for bass guitars".
If this active cab was a good choice for bass, we would know already (considering the price, it would be a bargain, so others would have chosen it before you and they would brag about it).

 

[el murdoque]

It's not only about DSP, the main question is to know wether the driver is optimized for the low frequencies of a bass guitar.

Yes! It's easy to call something FRFR and market it towards guitarists, because the most expensive and difficult bit of FRFR is 20-100 Hz.
A guitarist will never know their FRFR cab cannot do FR below 100Hz.


But, just saying: The Headrush 12" FRFR cabinet is okay to use and gets decently loud with bass - it certainly is a lot of cab for the money.
The Mk I model sells second hand for under €250.

 

[Pep]

In my opinion, there is no single 12" speaker that will compete with a "loud" drummer plus other instruments by itself no matter how many watts you try to pump through it (setting aside the fact that a single speaker can only safely handle so many watts anyway), unless we are using a different definition of a loud drummer. Obviously if you have good PA support and monitoring it is a different story.

I beg to differ with you. I was asked to turn down my QSC K12.2 again last night. At the end if the night we did Boogie-Oogie-Oogie and another musician who has been there nearly every week tell me that I killed it. I asked him what was different. He said besides nailing it, the bass cut through the mix so there you go.

 

[MCS4]

I beg to differ with you. I was asked to turn diwn again last night.

I don't doubt it! I would never suggest a 1x12 can't be more volume than some people would ever need, I just think if someone says a 1x12 is more than enough to handle a situation with a "loud" drummer, other bandmates trying to match the drummer, and not relying on a PA/monitor for a boost, their definition of a "loud" drummer must be different than mine.

 

[Pep]

Electro-Voice ZLX-12P-G2 1,000W 12-inch Powered Speaker with Bluetooth is cheap and has frfr mode. Is it a tt800..... no but it will 100 percent feel right and get the gig done. It helps if the FOH has good subwoofer. You need a good DI but you should have that already.

I have two of those we occasionally use as monitors. I tried one and it got lost in the mix. It couldn’t keep up. It might work in a very quiet setting with a little jazz trio.

 

[gtirard]

I don't doubt it! I would never suggest a 1x12 can't be more volume than some people would ever need, I just think if someone says a 1x12 is more than enough to handle a situation with a "loud" drummer, other bandmates trying to match the drummer, and not relying on a PA/monitor for a boost, their definition of a "loud" drummer must be different than mine.

I'm sure no-one will change his mind at the end of this discussion and it's perfectly fine, but out of curiosity, what brands and models of 1x12 cab have you tried before making that statement?
FME not all 1x12 are equal, and I know for sure that I could keep up with any drummer and guitarists I know, using my Barefaced Super Compact.

 

[MCS4]

I'm sure no-one will change his mind at the end of this discussion and it's perfectly fine, but out of curiosity, what brands and models of 1x12 cab have you tried before making that statement?
FME not all 1x12 are equal, and I know for sure that I could keep up with any drummer and guitarists I know, using my Barefaced Super Compact.

I freely admit that I don't specifically recall ever playing a Barefaced 1x12 and they could very well surprise me if I did. My impressions are based on my own experience through hundreds of gigs and rehearsals, mainly in the rock/metal world, with dozens or more cabs of all different sizes, shapes, makes, and models, including my own gear and backlines, but it of course is always possible there is stuff out there that would differ from my personal experience.

 

[Pep]

I freely admit that I don't specifically recall ever playing a Barefaced 1x12 and they could very well surprise me if I did. My impressions are based on my own experience through hundreds of gigs and rehearsals, mainly in the rock/metal world, with dozens or more cabs of all different sizes, shapes, makes, and models, including my own gear and backlines, but it of course is always possible there is stuff out there that would differ from my personal experience.

The Greenboy fEARless F112 will keep up as well.

 

[Wasnex]

The Greenboy fEARless F112 will keep up as well.

Great example that YMMV. It's not hard to find comments where people seem surprised that their F112 was not loud enough.

This cab uses a 3012LF woofer. The driver's sensitivity is 95.5dB 1W/1m and the power rating is 450RMS, 900W Program. A lot of people claim the F112 is rated for 900W, but that is way higher than any of the Eminence cab plans, which are all mechanically limited to 450W or less and require a steep HPF. I believe the F112 tuning is most similar to the 450W ported cab design.

Calculated SPL at 900W = 125dB
Calculated SPL at 450W =122dB

I am sure I could get the job done most of the time with a single F112. However, I think it's highly likely that I would frequently feel that an F112 does not have quite enough headroom.

 

[Pep]

Great example that YMMV. It's not hard to find comments where people seem surprised that their F112 was not loud enough.

This cab uses a 3012LF woofer. The driver's sensitivity is 95.5dB 1W/1m and the power rating is 450RMS, 900W Program. A lot of people claim the F112 is rated for 900W, but that is way higher than any of the Eminence cab plans, which are all mechanically limited to 450W or less and require a steep HPF. I believe the F112 tuning is most similar to the 450W ported cab design.

Calculated SPL at 900W = 125dB
Calculated SPL at 450W =122dB

I am sure I could get the job done most of the time with a single F112. However, I think it's highly likely that I would frequently feel that an F112 does not have quite enough headroom.

I can cover most gigs, but not all. For those I carry the 12” Sub Prototype (F112 without mid/high). That combination will move some air.

 

[agedhorse]

Great example that YMMV. It's not hard to find comments where people seem surprised that their F112 was not loud enough.

This cab uses a 3012LF woofer. The driver's sensitivity is 95.5dB 1W/1m and the power rating is 450RMS, 900W Program. A lot of people claim the F112 is rated for 900W, but that is way higher than any of the Eminence cab plans, which are all mechanically limited to 450W or less and require a steep HPF. I believe the F112 tuning is most similar to the 450W ported cab design.

Calculated SPL at 900W = 125dB
Calculated SPL at 450W =122dB

I am sure I could get the job done most of the time with a single F112. However, I think it's highly likely that I would frequently feel that an F112 does not have quite enough headroom.

Program power rating is meaningless, especially for bass, but it is quite a profit center for speaker repair professionals...