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from a foreigners perspective :-)

Why take any risk - to save a few minutes :hmm: - I dont see this obsession with saving time as taking priority over good quality food?

Also - the studies I pointed to, say there is increased risk of cancer - and we know that the "Western World" has higher rates of cancer than places where they don't use microwaves.

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But basically I see no need to take any risks and prefer to take my time about food - cook what you want and allow time for it ! :)
 
Well in the 1950s, people were saying that smoking was good for you - it calms the nerves...:hmm:

Now, nobody doubts that it causes cancer.

But there is still a lot of cancer and you can see it's more prevalent in societies that eat a lot of processed food and use microwaves...:hmm:
 
Bruce Lindfield said:
Also - the studies I pointed to, say there is increased risk of cancer - and we know that the "Western World" has higher rates of cancer than places where they don't use microwaves.
Correlation to general life expectancy is rather evident. You have to die of something, sometime. In Africa most people don't live long enough to get cancer...

Bruce Lindfield said:
But basically I see no need to take any risks and prefer to take my time about food - cook what you want and allow time for it !
If you want to avoid food poisioning, it's probably a better idea to avoid eating at restaurants. We have no idea how long those vegetables have been lying next to the steaks and soily potatoes.

Rune
 
Restaurants have to undergo stringent checks by public health inspectors - well they do over here anyway - and of course have a reputation to keep up - the slightest suspicion of problems and nobody would go!

Of course I'm not going to just walk into any fast-food place that I haven't heard of ....

In Brighton I have a choice of hundreds of restaurants and many places to read several current reviews - there's no risk there! :)
 
Rune Bivrin said:
Correlation to general life expectancy is rather evident. You have to die of something, sometime. In Africa most people don't live long enough to get cancer...

But how do you explain the significantly lower rates in Southern Europe .....where they live longer as well? :hmm:

Could it have anything to do with the Mediterranean diet and cooking fresh food properly....:eyebrow:
 
Well, that's a whole different issue. There's little doubt the Mediterranean cuisine is better for the cardiovascular system, what with all the olive oil, healthy vegetables and fresh fish, and it's also quite loaded with powerful anti-oxidants, which are supposed to protect against cancer.

What that has to do with microwave ovens is not exactly crystal clear.

You're welcome to dismiss them, but I have more pressing things to worry about, such as global warming from the excessive burning of fossile fuel needed to provide the electricity for the "proper" cooking (not to mention tube amplifiers:crying:)

Rune
 
Rune Bivrin said:
Well, that's a whole different issue. There's little doubt the Mediterranean cuisine is better for the cardiovascular system, what with all the olive oil, healthy vegetables and fresh fish, and it's also quite loaded with powerful anti-oxidants, which are supposed to protect against cancer.

What that has to do with microwave ovens is not exactly crystal clear.

They don't use them! :p
 
Bruce Lindfield said:
But how do you explain the significantly lower rates in Southern Europe .....where they live longer as well? :hmm:

Could it have anything to do with the Mediterranean diet and cooking fresh food properly....:eyebrow:

Better weather, better life rhythm, less stress, less pollution, and the list goes on.

Indeed eating out the microwave for every meal is probably not very good for you, but spouting all around that it gives you cancer is IMHO nothing but BS. Show me scientific PROOF (and not theories or correlations) showing that, through tests, the monkey eating microwaved food over an extended period of time got cancer, than maybe I'll believe you.

Being exposed to microwaves could indeed give you cancer, but how in hell is heating up your food going to do that??? Sorry, but that sounds really laughable to me.

As for the cigarettes = cancer argument, thats also a bunch of crap. Sure, if you smoke, you're more likely to get lung cancer, but again, there is no scientific PROOF that smoking will, in the long term, give you cancer. The distinction should IMO be made here. It is NOT cigarette smoke that gives you cancer, there hasnt been anything proved on that, but cigarette smoke does affect your lungs enough to make you liable to have lung cancer. Correlation of numbers and statistics are nothing but garbage, again IMHO. Living life according to statistics is denying yourself the freedom to say what the hell, im in a hurry, im heating up that junk and gettin a move on it.

Likes and dislikes are a different matter, sure, food not microwaved taste better and is probably alot healthier, as microwaves dont really have a good effect on proteins, vitamins, etc that you may find in the food you're eating, but to go as far as saying that microwave is the reason for cancer according to some statistics is IMHO, just plain dumb. This is health we're talking about, not sociology. You need concrete evidence of things and not far fetched theories which are most likely off by 10000 miles.
 
Here we go - another article :

A Known Hazard for Years
Today, young people can hardly imagine that human society once functioned without cellular phones, and actually quite well. No one died from overwork either, because cooking everyday, without microwave ovens, required more time.
This makes the microwave oven used in today's kitchen seem truly 'modern,' even though its technology is almost 70 years old. The health risks, too, have been known for just as long. It was the Germans who during the 1930's first developed microwave technology. By the time the Second World War broke out, German scientists had already developed a radar system based on technically generated microwaves, in order to detect British bombers in advance of a raid. In the midst of bitter cold wintertime, the soldiers used gather around the radar screen to get warm - and wound up getting sick. They developed cancer, which initially manifested as leukemia, or cancer of the blood. Upon learning this, the Supreme Command of the 'Wehrmacht' immediately responded by issuing a general order to abandon the use of radar.
Because it was apparent that human-engineered microwaves heat tissue, Humboldt University in Berlin was given a grant in the early '40s to develop microwave ovens. The objective was to provide German soldiers with a warm meal that could be prepared both fast and with no fuel, for use during the Barbarossa Campaign against the Soviet Union. However, anyone who consumed this microwaved food likewise developed cancerous blood, just like the radar technicians. Obviously, the immune system underwent a severe stress reaction to this type of food. The use of microwave ovens was subsequently forbidden in the entire Third Reich.
After the war, East Berlin and Humboldt University fell within the Soviet Union's sphere of influence. The Russians seized the University archives and with that, the medical files and research documents on experimental microwave ovens. After 1957, the research which the Germans had started was continued by Russians at the Institute for Radio Technology in Kinsk (in what is today Belarus), among other places. In the end, the Soviet Union promulgated a state law in 1976 banning the use of microwave ovens, and it published an international statement of warning. The prohibition was lifted during the period of Perestroika, although today, the threshold levels of acceptable exposure used by the Russian telecommunications industry are still several thousand times less than in the USA, and at least one thousand times less as those levels in West Europe.
By reading the research results, now more than a half-century old, from the German and Russian scientists, it is evident that government officials and developers could and should have fully understood the health hazards associated with microwave ovens. (See also the sidebar, Dangers of Microwave Ovens in our edition no.1)

New Evidence from Switzerland
A while later, in 1989, two Swiss researchers decided to investigate the hazards of microwave ovens, without having any prior knowledge that the German and Russian studies even existed. To support their research, Professor Bernard Blanc of the University of Lausanne, and an independent researcher, Dr. Hans U. Hertel, sought a research grant from the Swiss government. They requested 150,000 Swiss Francs from the Swiss National Research Fund. But their application was rejected with the explanation that the interests of the public would not be served by this type of research.
So Hertel financed the research from his own pocket, as well costs of a similar magnitude incurred from the ensuing legal proceedings. The Swiss Association of Manufacturers and Suppliers of Household Electrical Appliances (MHEA) was anything but pleased with the conclusions from their research, and filed suit against Hertel under the Federal Unfair Competition Act (UCA). Hertel failed to win his case within the Swiss judicial system, and was only awarded full restitution before the International Court of Human Rights. Naturally, you could understand that microwave oven manufacturers would react to Hertel's studies as if they were stung by a hornet. But the scientist's basic conclusion, to put it succinctly, remains the same: "Food, heated by microwaves, causes pathogenic changes in the blood of individuals who consume such food, similar to what is seen in the initial stages of cancer."
But how do you measure whether or not technically generated microwaves are hazardous to your health? The word "microwave" is merely a designation for a specific frequency range of electromagnetic waves which are also found in normal sunlight. From a purely physical perspective, natural and manmade microwaves both have the same frequencies and wave lengths. How does one establish the qualitative differences between these waves when their physical characteristics are identical? Quality can only be observed indirectly through its effects on living beings. Therefore, the only way to determine if microwave food is a health hazard is to look at how the body reacts to this type of nourishment.
For this reason, Hertel and Blanc concentrated primarily on the immune system, the most sensitive organ in the body. Its components are blood and lymph. Human test subjects were given food prepared in various ways, including food that required no cooking, food prepared with conventional cooking methods, microwave food and food defrosted with a microwave. Blood samples were taken prior to and after the food was consumed, and then analyzed in the lab. The basic conclusion: food that was cooked with the microwave, and food that was "just" defrosted with the microwave, were both equally harmful. How could this be determined through blood samples?

Hertel's Research Results
Hematocrit: The hematocrit (also called HCT, Crit, PCV or Packed Cell Volume) describes a form of viscosity (density) in the blood. Healthy blood is relatively thin. If blood thickens, i.e., the hematocrit values increase, then the danger of embolism, thrombosis or infarction - the number one cause of death - likewise increases.
Hertel's studies indicated that raw foods and conventionally prepared meals always led to a thinning of the blood. Microwave food, however, led to unhealthy clumping, or agglutination, in the blood. Each time, the effect would last up to two hours or longer.
The reason: In a healthy bloodstream, all blood particles have an electrically negative charge. That means they cannot cluster together, because there is no attraction between them. But when blood cells, because of stress, become depolarised, there are also electrically positive charged cells present, which may form clusters with oppositely charged cells.These clusters are like a stack of coins, which can clog up miniscule capillaries.
Leukocytes: Any intake of food places stress on the body for a brief period, thereby stimulating a moderate increase in the number of white blood cells. Microwave food however generates an unusually high increase in leukocytes. A further indication of an abnormal stress level.
Hemoglobin: These red blood corpusules, important for delivery of oxygen, decreased significantly with microwave food - likewise a stress symptom.
Cholesterol: VMicrowave food drastically elevates the cholesterol levels in the blood. That is a clear stress signal, because the body only increases its cholesterol levels in emergency situations. Cholesterol helps the cells to maintain their oxygen exchange, even under stress conditions. Hence it is not advisable to lower cholesterol artificially through pharmaceutical means - and also not necessary: by eliminating the cause of stress, the cholesterol level will decrease on its own. >
The topic of cholesterol was a natural fit for Hertel, as he was once a designated scientific representative for a large Swiss dairy company: "The industry has asserted over the last fifty years that butter, cheese, eggs, and meat - animal products which themselves contain a lot of cholesterol - were the cause of heart attacks and high cholesterol levels in the blood. But that was a lie used to promote margarine - derived from vegetable oils - as the ostensible healthy alternative to butter."
According to Hertel, a study conducted at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zürich demonstrated incontrovertibly that margarine did indeed produce a high cholesterol level in the blood, whereas butter actually lowered cholesterol.
Hertel's own microwave research came up with the same results: even unprocessed milk, rich in cholesterol, led to a reduction in blood cholesterol levels on human test subjects, whereas carrots (practically no cholesterol) raised cholesterol levels when cooked in a microwave.
Blood cholesterol has nothing to do with the cholesterol content of the foods consumed, but rather with the amount of stress caused by these types of food.
Microwave food places an especially heavy burden on the body, because harmful microwave energy is inductively transmitted to the blood via the food. Conventional cooking methods reduce the energy content of food. Microwave food, by contrast, is enriched with energy. However note: this does not make it automatically healthier, because at the same time, life-giving vital energy in the food is zapped by up to ninety percent (a statistic validated by Soviet researchers back in the 1950's).
Using bacterial bioluminescence methods, Hertel and Blanc were successful in proving that microwave radiation energy is transferred to the irradiated food fed to human test subjects: The bacteria, fed with blood serum, glowed most intensely if the subject had eaten microwave food.
The extent to which this microwave heating energy is unhealthy can also be seen through the microscope: healthy blood will crystallize into fine, beautiful crystals. Blood from persons who have eaten microwave food, by contrast, crystallizes into cruciform structures typically seen in patients suffering from cancer.
As Hertel explains, "It is not chemistry, but energy on which we thrive. It is not the molecules of protein or sugar, for instance, that our bodies require, but the energy they consist of, which is manifested in the structures of these molecules. We live from the energy which has built these chemical structures. So chemically understood are for instance, both natural and artificial vitamin Cs identical. Nevertheless, while naturally occurring vitamin C is manifested in beautiful crystalline structures, pharmaceutically produced vitamin C tends to form amorphous clumps.

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I think the wording saves that piece of crap from being totally laughable.

Cooking in a microwave, is ********. Heating or re-heating cooked food is a very different thing. I wouldn't even cook a potato in the microwave thought I have eaten them before and had no problems.

Excuse me I have some leftover pizza I'm going to re-heat.