Frustrated Mic or Direct So Frustrated!!!!

[d rick man]

Um... are you sure it is actually a ground loop ? not your ric picking up rf ? as delivered, irc's are among to noisiest basses ever. I personally threw in the towel on them... My project space is near the utility closet in my house The air handler theoepws enough rf to drive a ric to buzz city. never, ever hear on a P Bass...

and yes, I did a fill copper tape shield job star grounding. swapped the pickups. swapped again gfor humbuckers - ah, that was quiet but with none of the Rick sound I wanted...

I am glad you ask that. In practice they throw me a cord that I plug into my amp. It goes to this rack system that is on stage with us. It is loaded with stuff with a mini mixer on top that he mixes our monitors with. Which I have an app on my phone that I can mix my own monitor, but I constantly have to do that because they have access to the mixer. anyway. The cord goes to one of those rack things that is just for me. At practice tomorrow I will find out the name of the device that it goes. From there it goes digital cat 5 or something to the digital mixer.
Every time it is miraculously fixed he goes to that rack or the mixer. We have so many sound problem sometimes. Repeated problem, I just hate when the finger gets pointed at me. From show to show I don't change anything. I set up the same every time with the same setting, because once I have it set the way I like it I leave it. I'm done. Everybody else is constantly making changes, pushing peddles, flipping switches, changing volumes.
We have a digital Mixer that you can set the sound on a specific venue, set it and leave it, when you come back to that venue. Same or more problems every time. Sorry I go from explaining, to venting in a heart beat.

 

[bdplaid]

If it was me, I'd find a fix for it. Turning this around, how would you like it if the guitar player has one of those terrible single coils buzzes that he just ignored?

Could be a lot of things:

Bad cable. I recently had an unresolvable buzz which turned out to be a functioning cable, but for whatever reason, it caused a buzz. So change the cable first.

Power from the wall, in which case I'd look into one of these (I have one, to counter low voltage gigs):

1800W 120V Power Conditioner Automatic Voltage Regulation AVR AC Surge Protection 6 Outlets (LC1800) | Tripp Lite

Have your amp checked. If you have another amp, try using it.

Not to be snotty, but use some troubleshooting skills here.

Make it easy on everyone, yourself included.

 

[d rick man]

If it was me, I'd find a fix for it. Turning this around, how would you like it if the guitar player has one of those terrible single coils buzzes that he just ignored?

Could be a lot of things:

Bad cable. I recently had an unresolvable buzz which turned out to be a functioning cable, but for whatever reason, it caused a buzz. So change the cable first.

Power from the wall, in which case I'd look into one of these (I have one, to counter low voltage gigs):

1800W 120V Power Conditioner Automatic Voltage Regulation AVR AC Surge Protection 6 Outlets (LC1800) | Tripp Lite

Have your amp checked. If you have another amp, try using it.

Not to be snotty, but use some troubleshooting skills here.

Make it easy on everyone, yourself included.

Your right, I have not troubleshot my equipment, so in the end I could end up with egg on my face. It's heard to do when it only happens at practice, everyone is ready to practice and not troubleshoot. So I need to go over one day and recreate the situation and take the time to troubleshoot. Like many people have said here. eliminate each device, each cord and find the real problem.

 

[Panek]

Did I mention that I am Frustrated. I need help. I need some good advice before Tuesday night, When the crap is going to hit the fan. I don't want to offend anyone so don't take anything I say to heart, I am just so frustraed. This is to all the Bass players that have to put up with guitar players that own the PA system, set up the PA system, stand behind the mixer with there wireless, mixing during sound check even though we have a sound man. OK let me lay this out for you so you can have all the info, so you can give me some sage (sane) advice.
I play a Rickenbacker through my peddle board with BOSS tuner TU3, BOSS compressor BC1x, Micro POG, BOSS EQ GEB7, to my Markbass combo 102 stack @500 amp.
Not the best but not to shabby. At practice there is always a ground loop problem that i get blamed for. Only at this guys basement, not at home, not live. Case in point coming up....I have never heard or caused a ground loop problem on stage. they always fix the ground loop problem at practice by pushing buttons, throwing levers, slide, what ever. I never change anything on my stuff becouse i don't think it is my problem, yet it always gets fixed.
Now they want to mic me at practice, OK I don't care, but why do you want to mic me? " becouse the sound man cant get enough low end volume with out pegging out my head room." ????? OK? what ever.
Now they want to mic me at the next show. Why?
"becouse you keep having ground loop problem that I can't solve." That he can't solve. Wait didn't I just say that I have never had a ground loop problem on stage, only in the basement. Anyway Correct me if I'm wrong, But what does mic-ing me have to do with a ground loop problem???? Holy crap my heart is about to bang out of my chest just typing this.
We have a tight stage with a lot of equipment and the bass drum is right next to my amp, There is now way I am going to let them mic me, Can anyone give me a good reason why mic-ing me is a good idea. Please let me have it. I coudn't be more frustrated.

I am so jealous of you... I prefer to be mic'd up instead of using a DI box, and most times I have to fight sound guys who are absolutely clueless that you can mic up a bass cab... and here they're specifically asking for that... nice!!

 

[longfinger]

My first two thoughts:

- You have a gig in June 2020? Wow!
- Ah the days when Talkbass was Live sound was "Don't D.I. me, use a Mic and get my sound!" I didn't expect this switch.

 

[TheSeagoats]

I personally have grown to really enjoy a DI, eliminates the need for bringing an amp at all. I was having an issue in my most recent band where all the sound guys were trying to send me through a plain DI and wanted to eliminate the amp tone completely. I bought a Sansamp and then sound guys would prefer that over their own DI in my experiences. You get a more consistent tone that way, you don't have to worry about making sure the mic on the amp is in the right spot on the cone or right distance away or anything, it's literally just plug and play.

I know where you're coming from with your frustration. I had massive friction in my first band over differences of opinion, and I was trying to actively mitigate that in my second band which is why I considered the DI at all. I was adamant at first that the sound guys used the line out on my amp and they wouldn't do it. Turned out to be a blessing because I preferred the Sansamp after making the compromise. At the end of the day, you're part of a team and you'll need to do whatever is best for the team. What are you losing by letting them mic you? I say try it and if it doesn't work well then you can say it has been done and didn't work and explore further options.

 

[Wasnex]

Wasnex..What are the other model of DI?

WayneP.. Ground lift adapter to main power cord?

Give me more details, I am willing to try anything.

The three models I have used the most are Countryman Type-85, BSS AR116, and Radial J48. The J48 is a passive DI. For a passive bass and long snake runs, I would recommend a Radial J48 which is an active DI like the other two I recommended. I believe the Boss TU-2 functions as a buffer, so as long as you insert it between your bass and the DI it will serve as a buffer, so the JDI will work fine. The current BSS model is AR133, which is significantly larger than the AR116.

All of the models I have mentioned are solid professional level DIs. A lot of players have been completely happy with less expensive DIs. Radial makes two series of DIs that are less expensive. If you are interested take a look at the StageBug and Pro series of DIs.

As others have mentioned, it's not safe to lift the ground on your main power chord. This may eliminate the hum problem in some instances but it is unsafe. An alternative solution may be to use an Ebtech Hum-X on the mixer. [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] The Hum-X essentially lifts the ground unless a fault occurs. The reason I suggest using the Hum-X on the mixer is it is only rated for 6 amps, which is probably not sufficient current for a high powered bass amp.

A mic and DI will definitely sound a bit different, but you don't need a super expensive mic to do a good job. If you need to buy the mic yourself, consider an AKG P2 or an Audix D4. If the audio tech is just experimenting to see if they can solve the problem and still get good results, even something like a Shure SM57 or SM58 will work fine. In other words, if there are extra mics in the mic kit, they can probably just use what is available, so you don't need to buy anything. I generally avoid most mics designed for bass drum as they tend to scoop at the low mids, but the P2 is a bit of an exception. The frequency response chart for the P2 shows it has relatively flat response.

 

[Wasnex]

I have one bass that is always a little noisy---- damn it....

Rics tend to be fairly noisy. My first bass was a 4001.

 

[LowFactor]

Make sure the mic cable they are throwing to you is wired properly and doesn’t have any issues.
Make sure the rack system you are plugging into is wired properly... and grounded properly.
Make sure your amp is on the same power as the mixer and PA... doesn’t necessarily have to be the same circuit, just same service and that the outlets are grounded. Buy a cheap outlet tester from the local hardware store to check.
And never ever use a AC ground lift on your amp, especially if you sing. There is a reason they are nicknamed suicide plugs in the touring world. And they are illegal in most parts of the country as they violate the NEC codes. They were designed to plug a three pin power cable into an older two pronged outlet. Not to actually lift the ground on a properly grounded circuit.

 

[Wasnex]

I am glad you ask that. In practice they throw me a cord that I plug into my amp. It goes to this rack system that is on stage with us. It is loaded with stuff with a mini mixer on top that he mixes our monitors with. Which I have an app on my phone that I can mix my own monitor, but I constantly have to do that because they have access to the mixer. anyway. The cord goes to one of those rack things that is just for me. At practice tomorrow I will find out the name of the device that it goes. From there it goes digital cat 5 or something to the digital mixer.
Every time it is miraculously fixed he goes to that rack or the mixer. We have so many sound problem sometimes. Repeated problem, I just hate when the finger gets pointed at me. From show to show I don't change anything. I set up the same every time with the same setting, because once I have it set the way I like it I leave it. I'm done. Everybody else is constantly making changes, pushing peddles, flipping switches, changing volumes.
We have a digital Mixer that you can set the sound on a specific venue, set it and leave it, when you come back to that venue. Same or more problems every time. Sorry I go from explaining, to venting in a heart beat.

I totally get your frustration. It definitely sounds like an interaction with your gear and the PA is the source of a problem. It doesn't really matter that your gear is always the same. Ground loops involve every piece of gear that is interconnected. Every time the system torn down and set back back, many things change that could have an impact on this problem.

Something to consider is your rig may be interacting with the keyboard or one of the other amps, but the actual symptoms always manifest on your channel of the PA. It could be something unique in the way one of your pieces of equipment is designed.

Something my bands do that often minimizes how often this occurs is run the mixer off the same power as the backline, rather than using a plug at the back of the performance venue. In the practice venue, try plugging your gear into the same outlet as the mixer.

Also checking the ground on plug strips and extension chords is a good idea. I remember one performance where we had a really bad ground loop with the front line monitors. I tried every trick I knew and nothing worked. Eventually it was tracked to an ungrounded plug strip; the ground pin in plug was totally missing.

 

[Josh Kneisel]

Did I mention that I am Frustrated. I need help. I need some good advice before Tuesday night, When the crap is going to hit the fan. I don't want to offend anyone so don't take anything I say to heart, I am just so frustraed. This is to all the Bass players that have to put up with guitar players that own the PA system, set up the PA system, stand behind the mixer with there wireless, mixing during sound check even though we have a sound man. OK let me lay this out for you so you can have all the info, so you can give me some sage (sane) advice.
I play a Rickenbacker through my peddle board with BOSS tuner TU3, BOSS compressor BC1x, Micro POG, BOSS EQ GEB7, to my Markbass combo 102 stack @500 amp.
Not the best but not to shabby. At practice there is always a ground loop problem that i get blamed for. Only at this guys basement, not at home, not live. Case in point coming up....I have never heard or caused a ground loop problem on stage. they always fix the ground loop problem at practice by pushing buttons, throwing levers, slide, what ever. I never change anything on my stuff becouse i don't think it is my problem, yet it always gets fixed.
Now they want to mic me at practice, OK I don't care, but why do you want to mic me? " becouse the sound man cant get enough low end volume with out pegging out my head room." ????? OK? what ever.
Now they want to mic me at the next show. Why?
"becouse you keep having ground loop problem that I can't solve." That he can't solve. Wait didn't I just say that I have never had a ground loop problem on stage, only in the basement. Anyway Correct me if I'm wrong, But what does mic-ing me have to do with a ground loop problem???? Holy crap my heart is about to bang out of my chest just typing this.
We have a tight stage with a lot of equipment and the bass drum is right next to my amp, There is now way I am going to let them mic me, Can anyone give me a good reason why mic-ing me is a good idea. Please let me have it. I coudn't be more frustrated.

sounds like its the power in the guys basement. I have that issue pop up every now and then and it's always power related. I also don't have a ground loop issue in my rig, but some places (especially residential) has garbage wiring and sometimes its all on one circuit.

 

[kittywithabanjo]

Probably a power issue but having worked with alot of Markbass Di's, I always use a JDI in preference to the DI built into those amps, I think they sound better.

 

[4Mal]

frustration... FWIW... I found the Ric an expensive and frustrating experiment... noise in my rig makes me crazy...

 

[micguy]

I always have a good DI (A Radial Pro DI works great with the impedances of pedals feeding it) with a ground lift on my pedalboard. Hum? flip a switch, problem solved. This isn't that hard. If you want to always have good hum free sound, invest $100 in a decent DI, and the issue is solved forever.

 

[OogieWaWa]

Buy a cheap outlet tester from the local hardware store to check.

As LowFactor mentioned, get one of these and always take it with you. Check each outlet every time you plug in, or at least use it first when a problem pops up. Best six bucks you'll ever spend, cheap and handy. It's saved our bacon a number of times; I'd say 95% of the time it's a power issue. Nothing like plugging into a 3-prong outlet only to find the ground isn't connected or the wires are reversed.

I wonder what they're plugging your signal into; maybe a compressor? Not so sure what it would be if you are the only one plugged in to it.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Did I mention that I am Frustrated. I need help. I need some good advice before Tuesday night, When the crap is going to hit the fan. I don't want to offend anyone so don't take anything I say to heart, I am just so frustraed. This is to all the Bass players that have to put up with guitar players that own the PA system, set up the PA system, stand behind the mixer with there wireless, mixing during sound check even though we have a sound man. OK let me lay this out for you so you can have all the info, so you can give me some sage (sane) advice.
I play a Rickenbacker through my peddle board with BOSS tuner TU3, BOSS compressor BC1x, Micro POG, BOSS EQ GEB7, to my Markbass combo 102 stack @500 amp.
Not the best but not to shabby. At practice there is always a ground loop problem that i get blamed for. Only at this guys basement, not at home, not live. Case in point coming up....I have never heard or caused a ground loop problem on stage. they always fix the ground loop problem at practice by pushing buttons, throwing levers, slide, what ever. I never change anything on my stuff becouse i don't think it is my problem, yet it always gets fixed.
Now they want to mic me at practice, OK I don't care, but why do you want to mic me? " becouse the sound man cant get enough low end volume with out pegging out my head room." ????? OK? what ever.
Now they want to mic me at the next show. Why?
"becouse you keep having ground loop problem that I can't solve." That he can't solve. Wait didn't I just say that I have never had a ground loop problem on stage, only in the basement. Anyway Correct me if I'm wrong, But what does mic-ing me have to do with a ground loop problem???? Holy crap my heart is about to bang out of my chest just typing this.
We have a tight stage with a lot of equipment and the bass drum is right next to my amp, There is now way I am going to let them mic me, Can anyone give me a good reason why mic-ing me is a good idea. Please let me have it. I coudn't be more frustrated.

‘I carry a DI Pedal (Eden WTDI) with me to all gigs and rehearsals just in case this sort of thing pops up. You can get a DI without effects for about $30. It’s a good thing to have.

In your case there is line noise that needs to be resolved, which is a pain as you are there to work on music, not electronics. What needs to be done, challenging, time consuming, and sometimes exasperating, but the point remains, it’s best to resolve ASAP. Being able to isolate the source is key, because the cause could be anything from dirty current to shielding issues with your bass, lights on dimmers, your pedal board, or it could be the PA.

I’m certain these guys are trying their best to resolve and may not have the expertise to identify the source. He is a guitarist after all. So, my advice is to take a deep breath and slowly exhale about 10 times, then try to work out the problem.

 

[RumbleBot]

Get yourself one of these Whirlwind IMP 2 direct boxes ...

Whirlwind IMP 2 1-channel Passive Instrument Direct Box

Was just about to suggest one of these. I've got a pair of them for general use. Handy and can fit easily in a bass case or gig bag. Passive and built like a little tank.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

Do you still get the (presumed) ground loop if you go straigth to amp with no pedals? It seem to me that something in your pedal setup could be causing this too. How are you powering the POG? I know from experience that POGs don't like to be on the same power supply as ANYTHING else or weird hum/noise can happen (or WILL happen EVERY SINGLE TIME in my experience, at least with my POG2). In fact, ANY digital pedal on the same power supply as analog pedals can potentially cause problems. Don't ask me why, they just can (in my experience). Powering your amp from a different power socket than your pedals can also cause problems if the sockets are on different circuits.

Take the time to troubleshoot your gear and setup. Maybe you can sort this out yourself.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

And like Wasnex said, Rics tend to pick up more noise than many other basses. Back when I used a 4003 as my main touring bass I always feared the worst if there were fluroescent lights anywhere near the stage. But if pointing the bass in a different direction doesn't help you can probably rule out this.

 

[darwin-bass]

OP - it is NOT about YOU! Stop taking it personally as if hum in the system is your fault or someone else's. Just because you bought good gear does not mean there can't be noise issues. It is not an insult to your ability to pick gear.

And it isn't about whose fault it is, it is only about the place where the solution can be applied.

For instance our e-gtr player has a very expensive Helix effects unit. When run on XLR it hisses terribly if we have phantom power turned on for that channel. The board is quiet with phantom on every other channel so I could get all upset and blame the Helix but IT DOESN'T MATTER. The solution is to just turn off phantom to kill the noise and move on.

We often have the bass line buzzing. We lift the ground and the noise goes away. Nobody's fault, just is.

And do not assume a mic is inferior to a DI signal. Even a low-cost mic can do a great job.