Frustrated Mic or Direct So Frustrated!!!!

The mic will definitely eliminate a ground loop because there is no connection between your amp and the mixer.

I personally prefer using a DI. I run my bass into the DI, and then run the Thru from the DI into my amp. If I use the built in DI on the amp, my preference is to set it to Pre. Setting the amp's DI to Post would be my last choice. I would rather use a mic if the idea is to capture to sound of my rig.

The usual way of eliminating a ground loop is by lifting the ground on the DI. If you are using the built in DI on your amp, this may or may not be possible as some amps do not have a ground lift. However, lifting the ground on the DI does not always correct noise problems. Also, it's not unusual for there to be an interaction between an amp and the mixer that causes hum in the mixer, while the amp remains quiet. So just because you don't hear the problem on stage does not mean there is not a problem.

It sounds like someone else in your group is experiencing some frustration as well, and using the mic is sort of a desperate attempt to eliminate the problem. Trust me, it can be very, very frustrating to try and eliminate hum in the sound system. Sometimes using a different model of DI works, although from a technical standpoint it doesn't seem to make any sense. Sometimes nothing works, so you use creative gain staging to try to mitigate to problem as well as you can.

A lot of bass players want to fall on the sword because the can't get anyone to mic their cab. At least it's a bit refreshing and amusing to find someone who wants to fight for their DI. But to be honest, I don't think it's worth getting so upset that you ruin a gig, or bailing on a band that you otherwise like.

Here's an observation I have made: The people that ultimately get the most gigs are typically the people everyone likes to work with. This often has a lot more to do with personality and demeanor than outright musical skill. I realize using a DI seems pretty important to you, but a lot of people will view this as trivial and think your are overreacting and being dramatic. If you want to call the shots, them buy and run the sound system yourself...that's what I did.

 

As Wasnex said, sometimes something that makes no sense will solve the problem. I suddenly had a massive hum in the house system at practice last week, which had not previously been there. We tried plugging my rig into different outlets around the room and nothing worked. Eventually I just plugged back into the power strip behind my rig that I had originally been plugged into, only into a different outlet. Magically, all the noise disappeared! Of course, that makes absolutely no sense, but the problem was gone.

Wasnex also mentioned a ground lift from your DI. From what I see, if this is your amp, the pictures show you do have a ground lift on the back panel. So give that a try. Another common trick is to use a so-called ground lift adapter on the main power cord. Typically one of these tricks work, but not always (wasn’t working for me the other night!).

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Ecclesia: Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
Administrator, Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Tobias Club #133
Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly
My Basses

 

Sounds to me like a bit of power struggle between you and the PA owner. While DI is the preferred way to send bass signal to the board, why not let them try mic'ing you and see what happens? From what I can tell, there's zero impact on you for that. It's not like they're saying: ditch your amp or your Darkglass right?

I'd lean towards willing to try to resolve the issue. I would NOT put up a huge fight unless I had double and triple checked each link in my signal chain and had 100% confidence in what I am sending out. Process of elimination is what's required here.

What happens when you plug your bass direct into the board (maybe through a DI box) in your rehearsal space? Same problem on not? What happens if you try a different bass, same problem? If the problem still occurs, then it's likely on him and his setup. If it doesn't occur, then it might be on you and your signal chain (or how your signal chain interfaces with his power supply).

Either way, getting bent out of shape over this is a waste of energy.

The issue with the soundman is a whole other thing. While you might have divine tone coming our of your amp, it might not work at all for any given room you're playing in. Might be a bunch of things, your setup, the room, the PA configuration, soundman is deaf/has no skill, preamp on that channel on the board is dead. Hard to tell.

 

So they aren't trying to change "your sound", they just want to mic your cab instead of using the di to fix a technical issue and make everything sound better? I don't see what the big deal is in this case.

On a technical note: check your power supply for your pedals. If it's not a unit with separate isolated outputs that's probably contributing to the buzz. Also, if the power source allows it, make sure your amp and pedal board are plugged into the same outlet as the PA.

 

Just to clarify, I’m talking about one of these, used on your main power cord:

​

Something else you can try at rehearsal, plug your rig into the same electrical outlet that the PA is plugged into.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Ecclesia: Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
Administrator, Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Tobias Club #133
Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly
My Basses

 

Don’t lift the power ground of your amp. A good DI with an isolation transformer like the JDI would be my suggestion. Honestly, a decent mic shouldn’t be an issue.

 

Well for starters if they unplug the mike line from your amp does the ground or hum issue go away? If yes there is a local issue in your system that doesn't like their system or vice verse. If it doesn't go away it isn't your problem.

 

Are they sure it's noise from a ground loop? there are other causes of noise that can be annoying too, and sometimes it's the instrument and the lights in the room or other environmental things being picked up by your axe or one of your pedals or even your amp or your cord.

EDIT: I see that sorta idea has already come up.... I'll be interested to see what the cause turns out to be!

I have one bass that is always a little noisy---- damn it....

 

if the sound coming out of your speakers is the sound you like = mic the cab ..! which also helps with ground loop issues ..!

this is a great book to read/learn from ..!! Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook can be found in pdf format for free

Download [PDF] Sound Reinforcement Handbook Free – Usakochan PDF

 

You seem frustrated but don't let me put words in your mouth. "This guy's basement" isn't properly wired for live sound reinforcement, not sure if that has been debated. But another +1 for slipping a DI all up in there. Isolation is what it says. You'll clean up any issues for pretty cheap. Not blaming your gear, but isolating your gear from the signal chain should help. I'm guessing there are no other instrument amps, only mics currently in the sound board in rehearsal situation?

 

When I don't have the skills, knowledge and equipment to fix whatever the problem is I go along with whatever those that do suggest for a solution. In this case they might not have much more knowledge than you but let them try. If it fixes it you learned something. Just try not to knock over the mic.

If you want to try fixing it yourself do it in steps. Bass plugged into board. Bass to amp with DI to board, try all the different switch settings. Add the pedal board last, maybe one pedal at a time. This will allow you to isolate the problem.

Good luck with this. I hope you fix it.

 

Sorry - I guess I misinterpreted the source of your frustrations.

What sort of power supply are you using there?

 

Get yourself one of these Whirlwind IMP 2 direct boxes ...

Whirlwind IMP 2 1-channel Passive Instrument Direct Box

It will be a quick, easy and inexpensive solution to your problem. Put it in your signal chain after your stomp boxes but before your amp. It's a simple, rugged unit that has the ground lift functionality that it appears as if you might need. I routinely see them on eBay for $50 brand new. I got mine years ago for $25 used and it has served me well on the occasions that I've needed it. You can probably spend a thousand bucks on a super high end studio quality direct box if you put your mind (and wallet) to it. However, I've seen this one on several top ten direct box "best buy" lists and it's a great bang for your buck unit that'll work just about as well as anything for live use where the quality of the PA and the skills of the soundman are more often than not the real world limiting factors, IMHO. As a bonus, it can serve as a lifeline to get you through a gig if your amp ever blows.

 

NEVER BYPASS THE GROUND ON YOUR AMPLIFIER'S POWER SUPPLY.

IT IS THERE SO YOU DO NOT GET SHOCKED OR ELECTROCUTED!

 

Um... are you sure it is actually a ground loop ? not your ric picking up rf ? as delivered, ric's are among to noisiest basses ever. I personally threw in the towel on them... My project space is near the utility closet in my house The air handler throws enough rf to drive a ric to buzz city. never, ever heard on a P Bass...

and yes, I did a fill copper tape shield job star grounding. swapped the pickups. swapped again for humbuckers - ah, that was quiet but with none of the Rick sound I wanted...