frustrated with tone chasing

[sonicnuance]

Maybe it's not in your fingers, yet.

ouch

maybe though

 

[bass4worship]

Been chasing tone for over forty years. In the last year or so I learned to first take my time. By that I mean I used to just start turning knob on my amp and bass without doing it very slowly. Now I take it slow and turn one freq until I hear what I want. I use my bass to fine tune the tone.

 

[sonicnuance]

so I listened to the recordings just now and it turned out better than I thought (more like what I was trying to sound like in the band mix).

I'll take everyone's suggestions to heart. I appreciate the feedback and look forward to applying them next time.

sincerely,
mozar

p.s. if you want to hear one of the songs and provide me (constructive) feedback, you can go here Invalid Link Removed and download SONG074.MP3 as an example (fast forward to 1:25 when the music starts) It is from a Christian church service just so you know. Not my greatest playing but you get the idea.

 

[Knifedge]

I seem to find myself in quite the opposite.. I get a bass/amp/cab setup, quickly set up the tone and ambience I like, then I find another bass and the equation changes.. I have been told it is part of the progression... or part of your ears and musical changes as you age... either way, there are so many factors that affect your overall tone that it is an enemy if you put too much time into it, and it becomes a habit. Even as you go from one side of the amp to the other as you play, the tone changes slightly... different rooms do different things to your tone, dead strings, humidity, number of people in a room, carpeted stage or hard floor, etc. etc. etc.

If you are that picky about your sound, you need to rent a dead room for a few hours or more... get your tone... then take it to different rooms and make note of the sound changes....

 

[lfbassguy]

The endless search for tone is pointless. There is no ultimate tone, and it's a huge waste of time trying to gain 1% more than what you have.

Play. Drink beer. Enjoy. Hands off the EQ.

YES +1! i used to chase tone like nobody's business. i wasn't having fun anymore. i sold everything and bought what i wanted to play. what was cool to me. what looks like me. what feels right to me. the tone? i dont know. i having too much fun playing now!

 

[sonicnuance]

YES +1! i used to chase tone like nobody's business. i wasn't having fun anymore. i sold everything and bought what i wanted to play. what was cool to me. what looks like me. what feels right to me. the tone? i dont know. i having too much fun playing now!

this is where I'm trying to get - a beer may help


actually listening to the recordings has calmed me down quite a bit. we'll see how long that lasts

 

[Osprey]

Yes, fussing about tone is generally pointless. The room you are in, the way the PA is set, how the other instruments are eq'd (and where they are), where the listener is standing, are all variables. For sure what you hear on stage isn't what the audience hears. I find a fine tone when I practice won't cut through with a band, and the tone which blends beautifully with my new small band is clanky & awful when I use the same settings at home. What makes you sound like a great player is the groove, the line, the style, the way you work with the drummer. And yes..record everything you do and listen to that: You'll sound good when you work well with the band and lame when you wander away from the "edge" of the song, whether the tone is Motown dark or new-strings twangy.

 

[onionpuzzle]

Yes, fussing about tone is generally pointless. The room you are in, the way the PA is set, how the other instruments are eq'd (and where they are), where the listener is standing, are all variables. For sure what you hear on stage isn't what the audience hears. I find a fine tone when I practice won't cut through with a band, and the tone which blends beautifully with my new small band is clanky & awful when I use the same settings at home. What makes you sound like a great player is the groove, the line, the style, the way you work with the drummer. And yes..record everything you do and listen to that: You'll sound good when you work well with the band and lame when you wander away from the "edge" of the song, whether the tone is Motown dark or new-strings twangy.

these are some good points

if you are 95% there, you ARE there.

 

[pokengkong]

It seems your equipment is good enough to get good tone, buying more equipment isn't gonna fix anything. If you had to, maybe a Boss Bass EQ pedal can help. But, for me, the most dramatic way to increase overall performance is a bass setup. Getting the neck, bridge and action working right makes me play better because the instrument responds better. Playing the instrument simply becomes more joyful.

 

[Ja-Boo]

I know your Problem. I am always turning knobs at rehearsal, because either the mids are not cutting or are sounding clanky. Flatwounds didnt work for me, because I didnt like the thumb they add to the tone. At the moment im thinking about buying another cab (playing a german FMC 112 at the moment).

My last gig was in a club with a very nice roomsound, so now I know that my rig can give me the sound I am looking for, but the room is the Problem. Too bad our room dont have any tonecontrol...

 

[Osprey]

Playing the instrument simply becomes more joyful.

That's what does it!!

 

[MIJ-VI]

The stage volume isn't that loud actually. The guitar amps are in isolation booths (mine isn't) and the drums are behind a plexi cage.

Its an interesting idea to add another cab, but I barely push the amp as it is.

Compared to a single cab, two matching cabs stacked vertically =

- more cone-age & cab-age/more air being moved

- a more depthy and visceral bass presence on stage

- a speaker up closer to your ears so that you can better hear the clarity in your bass' tone.

 

[T. Alan Smith]

mozarwasagenius,

The attention your paying to your tone after initial setup should be focused on those whom your playing with. Once your up and running, stop listening to yourself and listen to what those around you are doing.

 

[unclejane]

What don't I like about my tone? Currently I dial in mids and bass when the full band is playing but it sounds clanky at times. If I dial them down I generally don't cut through.

Generally I set my instrument controls at the start of the gig and make minor tweaks. Part of the problem may be in ear monitors I'm using (although I use my amp as a personal monitor).

:scowl: I'm really frustrated and disgusted with myself right now.

thanks for listening to me rant. Any tips would be appreciated

Speaking as someone who's actually come out the other side of this..

I agree with others who've said taking a look at the gear is a good next step at this point. Particularly if it's been going on for a while and technique/stylistic changes havn't yeilded any results.

Fender and Fender style instruments have a very distinct sound and so sometimes aren't suitable for getting particular types of tone. Obviously that includes the P and J basses and partly the MusicMan. For instance, I like a kind of pronounced upper midbass with as little clank and pinch as possible. I've found this kind of tone sits in a mix better than the wall-o'-mud tone which is better for certain types of rock and other forms. I never was able to get this from any Fender style bass, including the Music Man, no matter what I tried.

I ditched fretted about a decade ago (with my G&L L2000 FL) which really helped, but I still couldn't quite get there with it.

Then when I heard Jeff Berlin and then finally Bunny Brunel (i.e. with CAB), that was much closer to what I was looking for so I investigated the gear they were using. Turns out that, in the end, a defanged Carvin Bunny Brunel was the right medicine to get my own tone. I can stay turned down and yet also be heard in a mix, and from time to time I can actually hear a clear note coming from my playing.

Now my other basses sit in their cases and will probably be sold....

But if you find the knobs and switches going all the time on the bass and/or the amp, yeah it's safe to say you might need to look at different gear. It's not always the player's fault...

LS

 

[smcgov]

Are you judging your tone from your in-ears? I've never took what I hear through those as accurate at all, just something to be used for referencing. Walk out, away from the stage, next time you're sound checking and see what you hear there.

I agree, another great deal is to have someone record at the board, in my experience sometimes the one that sounds prettiest at home or even onstage isn't the best one for the mix out front.

 

[lamarjones]

I subscribe to the 95% rule. Get 95% of what you are trying to do and drop the rest. You can spend forever being anal as hell trying to reach perfection but you never will. Also, trying to reach perfection will lead to OCD also. I'm sure people will disagree, but that is how I roll and I've made many groups very happy. Besides, whose to say the other 5% isn't there? Almost always, that is the subjective part.

 

[GianGian]

To me it sounds like you may have some psychological problem, and not a tone problem. Give it some thought. I am OCD and it is not fun. Just saying, we should always be aware of this kind of thing.

 

[unclejane]

I agree, another great deal is to have someone record at the board, in my experience sometimes the one that sounds prettiest at home or even onstage isn't the best one for the mix out front.

+1. A lot of basses sound great when you're playing them by yourself, but when you add in the other instruments and get up on stage, it sounds weak and just awful. My Rick 4001/3's that I gigged with were like this. Especially with new strings, they sounded pretty good though the amp by themselves, but soon as the other guys started playing I noticed my right hand starting to get tired. Two songs later, my plucking fingers would be practically blistered from my hammering on it trying to get clear notes. Usually the neck PU would get turned off and the tone controls would be zeroed out. By the end of rehearsal I was ready for rehearsal to be over.

Then for a while with one of my bands I got to gig with a Steinberger (the little plastic one with the EMG pickups). This one also sounded good by itself, but was absolutely g0d-lyk3 in the mix. At gigs, it was absolutely explosive with just the bridge PU; I'd just touch it and this gunshot note would blast out of the thing. Even with the monitors turned up I could hear me _and_ the rest of the band. Out in the crowd it was clear and clean too without drowning out all the other instruments like my Rick always did.

Up to that point I'd had no idea the bass could make such a huge difference, but that really convinced me. The "Stein" belonged to our singer but I never successfully got him to sell it to me.

So it really can be the bass depending on the type of music and the tone you're after....

LS

 

[smcgov]

+1. A lot of basses sound great when you're playing them by yourself, but when you add in the other instruments and get up on stage, it sounds weak and just awful. My Rick 4001/3's that I gigged with were like this. Especially with new strings, they sounded pretty good though the amp by themselves, but soon as the other guys started playing I noticed my right hand starting to get tired. Two songs later, my plucking fingers would be practically blistered from my hammering on it trying to get clear notes. Usually the neck PU would get turned off and the tone controls would be zeroed out. By the end of rehearsal I was ready for rehearsal to be over.

Then for a while with one of my bands I got to gig with a Steinberger (the little plastic one with the EMG pickups). This one also sounded good by itself, but was absolutely g0d-lyk3 in the mix. At gigs, it was absolutely explosive with just the bridge PU; I'd just touch it and this gunshot note would blast out of the thing. Even with the monitors turned up I could hear me _and_ the rest of the band. Out in the crowd it was clear and clean too without drowning out all the other instruments like my Rick always did.

Up to that point I'd had no idea the bass could make such a huge difference, but that really convinced me. The "Stein" belonged to our singer but I never successfully got him to sell it to me.

So it really can be the bass depending on the type of music and the tone you're after....

LS

fascinating, that bass for me was my SSD early czech spector with EMG's.....I had all these super expensive basses and the soundman and our singers told me to leave them all at home and just bring the SSD.

 

[lousybassplayer]

Tone advice, gear advice, even clinical diagnoses. That's TB, hope it helps.