frustrated with tone chasing

[Sundogue]

There is SO much in the signal chain that affects sound that it is truly dizzying.

Part of the issue with tone chasing is that it really is like chasing your tail and it will never end. The reason? The dynamics of the room you play in and whom you play with (along with their tone chasing) differs significantly from gig to gig and even moment to moment.

Simplify. the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid) applies here. Start with your bass. How and where you play on it causes major shifts in tone. If you can't control that, how on earth are you ever going to get control over it by adding in all the various gear at your disposal that will more than likely only muck it up?

As someone mentioned, start with everything set flat (or as reasonably flat as can be had with gear that isn't truly flat to being with). Play your bass using varying technique and placement. Play near the bridge and the neck and everywhere in between, and pluck in all manner from delicate stroking to slapping the crap out of it and everything in between. Explore your bass and your technique first.

The whole point of amplification is to amplify your bass and how you play it. It's purpose isn't to change what you are already doing with your bass, at least not significantly unless it is for effect.

Another point: I find many make mistakes with EQ'ing. EQ'ing shouldn't be used as much as a tone control by addition as much as what can be gained by subtraction. Find the tone you like (as it is amplified) and make subtle adjustments by "cutting" frequencies, not boosting others. Boosting, more often than not, only masks things rather than actually adding to the quality of your tone. Every time you boost a frequency, it will somewhat (or a lot depending on the level of boost) overwhelm adjacent and harmonic frequencies, sometimes to the point where you are left with nothing but tonal junk and frustration. I find it more useful to cut frequencies to reveal the actual tone lying underneath.

Sometimes I think we put too much stock into gear thinking "if only" we had this or that one special piece of gear, we'd find tone nirvana. I do believe that so long as one has just about any relatively decent amplification and can be heard, the tone you seek is already at your disposal. Just go back to basics.

 

[FunkMetalBass]

Just curious... you need a 32 band EQ with your own cabs? Or you use it with backline?

If I were rocking a BFM Omni-15 Tallboy, I'd have a 32-band EQ with it, simply because flat frequency response is almost never preferable with instruments, but accurately reproducing those sub-contra notes is (depending on the situation, I guess).

I've never been in the situation where I have a backline. I might throw a 32-band EQ into my preamp rack and take it along with me if I am ever in that situation, though.

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

There is SO much in the signal chain that affects sound that it is truly dizzying.

Part of the issue with tone chasing is that it really is like chasing your tail and it will never end. The reason? The dynamics of the room you play in and whom you play with (along with their tone chasing) differs significantly from gig to gig and even moment to moment.

Simplify. the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid) applies here. Start with your bass. How and where you play on it causes major shifts in tone. If you can't control that, how on earth are you ever going to get control over it by adding in all the various gear at your disposal that will more than likely only muck it up?

As someone mentioned, start with everything set flat (or as reasonably flat as can be had with gear that isn't truly flat to being with). Play your bass using varying technique and placement. Play near the bridge and the neck and everywhere in between, and pluck in all manner from delicate stroking to slapping the crap out of it and everything in between. Explore your bass and your technique first.

The whole point of amplification is to amplify your bass and how you play it. It's purpose isn't to change what you are already doing with your bass, at least not significantly unless it is for effect.

Another point: I find many make mistakes with EQ'ing. EQ'ing shouldn't be used as much as a tone control by addition as much as what can be gained by subtraction. Find the tone you like (as it is amplified) and make subtle adjustments by "cutting" frequencies, not boosting others. Boosting, more often than not, only masks things rather than actually adding to the quality of your tone. Every time you boost a frequency, it will somewhat (or a lot depending on the level of boost) overwhelm adjacent and harmonic frequencies, sometimes to the point where you are left with nothing but tonal junk and frustration. I find it more useful to cut frequencies to reveal the actual tone lying underneath.

Sometimes I think we put too much stock into gear thinking "if only" we had this or that one special piece of gear, we'd find tone nirvana. I do believe that so long as one has just about any relatively decent amplification and can be heard, the tone you seek is already at your disposal. Just go back to basics.

^^^This. I couldn't have said it better and/or more succinctly, myself.

 

[gruuv]

Agreed on going into debt for a bass. Or only unless you can pay off the McGuido Bros. in a reasonable amount of time before you have to start running drugs and cigarettes for them to keep your kneecaps.

There've been lots of boutique threads that have gone nowhere so I'll avoid making any specific statements in that regard. As a Carvin fanatic, I consider the Carvin a kind of mass-produced boutique - when it finally does come to your house and you open the case, you can't believe what's in there only cost 1100 to 1300....

LS

Agreed... certainly wasn't trying to start the boutique debate up. PM sent on the other topic. . .

 

[Jester's Fury]

Set everything flat. Sit in front of the amp, play until you like the tone you hear.

I did this ten years ago and never looked back. The only time I dial in different EQ is when I add either chorus and/or overdrive.

 

[Sundogue]

I did this ten years ago and never looked back. The only time I dial in different EQ is when I add either chorus and/or overdrive.

Curious. Do you play in the same room all the time?

Just asking because it's been my experience that EQ'ing is very room dependent and no matter what tone I like, I need to EQ out problematic frequencies the room accentuates.

 

[smcgov]

you know I used to have the hartke/GK 800RB thing which was a huge fad way back when and a guy used to sub for me and he had a Stingray5 and I heard him on my set and thought it sounded really awesome, I too had a SR5 and when I was onstage I always hated it. We all keep moving on to bigger and better things but I bet the GK/hartke thing really did sound good.

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

I've been there. You have to let go. Seriously. You just have to put your mental energy into other places - like how you fit in the groove, in the mix. You *know* that the only person who notices your tone is *you* - and while I agree you have to like how your bass sounds, if you're the only one who care that much, why bother?

Focus on the music. That will solve everything.

 

[Sundogue]

I've been there. You have to let go. Seriously. You just have to put your mental energy into other places - like how you fit in the groove, in the mix. You *know* that the only person who notices your tone is *you* - and while I agree you have to like how your bass sounds, if you're the only one who care that much, why bother?
Focus on the music. That will solve everything.

I agree...mostly. But "if you're the only one who cares that much, why bother?" Because I'm the only one who cares, that's why.

There are two parts to performing. One part is the musician, the other part is the audience. Let me ask you this...If the audience is the only one that cares, why bother playing? Why not do something else for a living or hobby?

I read a lot of threads where it appears the only thing that matters is the audience. Out of the limitless things one can do with their life, why choose to play music, much less bass, if it is to only serve someone other than yourself?

I think everyone would agree, that to varying degrees, there must be some satisfaction to be gained for the musician himself or playing/peforming would be pointless would it not? And the same holds true for one's tone I would assume. I can only go by my own experience and the very existence of talkbass that a bass player must care to some degree about their tone, even if no one else does.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Curious. Do you play in the same room all the time?

Just asking because it's been my experience that EQ'ing is very room dependent and no matter what tone I like, I need to EQ out problematic frequencies the room accentuates.

It's been my experience that I don't need to EQ live. I don't seem to suffer problematic freqencies as others seem to.

 

[SteveC]

I've been there. You have to let go. Seriously. You just have to put your mental energy into other places - like how you fit in the groove, in the mix. You *know* that the only person who notices your tone is *you* - and while I agree you have to like how your bass sounds, if you're the only one who care that much, why bother?

Focus on the music. That will solve everything.

I wish I could do this. I'd buy a couple Squier's - one with flats and one with rounds - and take my little combo amp and just play.

I think everyone would agree, that to varying degrees, there must be some satisfaction to be gained for the musician himself or playing/peforming would be pointless would it not? And the same holds true for one's tone I would assume. I can only go by my own experience and the very existence of talkbass that a bass player must care to some degree about their tone, even if no one else does.

I agree. I think it's good to care, but I think the point is we care too much, or to an extreme that is borderline obsessive for some of us.

It's been my experience that I don't need to EQ live. I don't seem to suffer problematic freqencies as others seem to.

I think there is an argument to be made for "EQ'ing the room." We do it with our PA (RTA) all the time. It matters. I also do it when I'm playing a venue with a hollow stage for example. You need to dail off some low end or it gets boomy.

 

[Sundogue]

It's been my experience that I don't need to EQ live. I don't seem to suffer problematic freqencies as others seem to.

It certainly depends on just what "your" tone is to begin with, and what frequency problems are present in any given room.

You may be EQ'ing the problems right out just in the way your tone controls are set for the tone you like. That may explain why you feel it unnecessary to adjust for it...because "your" tone already suits most places you play. Not having to deal with it is a bonus of your tone profile.

Personally, I seldom have to do much EQ'ing, but I do like to tweak my rig a bit for each room knowing I may be on the verge of some low end feedback if I'm not careful. Most bands I'm in tend to be a bit on the louder side (not insane levels mind you) which of course exacerbates the problem.