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frustrated with tone chasing

#44
Your gear seems good enough. So what'd I'd do, is play ONE bass until you can consistently produce the sound you're lookin' for unplugged, and then try to amplify THAT sound. The cool part is, once you can sound like you on one bass unplugged you can sound like you on anything, always. You must master the sound within.
 
#45
it's not the equipment,... it's the user that counts. work on technique. there is a ton of tone variety between the fingers, the nut, and the bridge. i don't care where you set my EQ in most situations. just adjust your touch and articulation.
also, turn down the volume if room is boomy and let the sound person do his job. gl.
 
#46
If you care about the audience (which you probably should), then your tone doesn't mean much. Hell, the notes you pick don't mean much. As long as you play on the beat (or intentionally off the beat) no one will notice. Worry more about rhythm than tone imho...
 
#47
mozarwasagenius said:
ouch

maybe though
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It's not a negative thing, just something to work on. You have good gear though I don't know how happy I'd be with a single 12... two have a much fuller sound IME IMO.

Many think roundwounds are a problem, even when the problem actually is learning how to play them. Clank free with roundwounds is entirely possible.

My standard advice for a solid out of the box sound: start with everything flat (amp and bass) and turn your amp up to gig volume. If you're hanging onto how you set your gear up at home, unless you live with a live band, forget them. Live is different.

Keep the volume up on your bass and learn how to control your dynamics with your hands. You'll end up with a ridiculous dynamic range at your disposal and it's far less susceptible to gear screwing it up.

So is this saying you don't know how to play? Nope. Just that there may be things that could be improved upon. I've worked on the same things I mentioned and as a result I get the tones I want consistently, gig to gig, bass to bass, artist to artist, venue to venue. Pretty sure it's not a coincidence.
:cool:
 
#48
nostatic said:
If you care about the audience (which you probably should), then your tone doesn't mean much. Hell, the notes you pick don't mean much. As long as you play on the beat (or intentionally off the beat) no one will notice. Worry more about rhythm than tone imho...
Click to expand...

I would hate to gig like that. No offense. I've come to realize that if I'm happy, the rest falls into place. Not the other way around.
 
#49
Pilgrim said:
The endless search for tone is pointless. There is no ultimate tone, and it's a huge waste of time trying to gain 1% more than what you have.

Play. Drink beer. Enjoy. Hands off the EQ.
Click to expand...

Like a lot of things in life, getting closer to perfection brings in the law of diminishing returns; you have to spend a lot more time and money to inch closer to the goal. It's like being on a football team on the 2 yard line and with each play they get halfway closer without ever getting across.

Music is about having fun. And your way of thinking is keeping you from enjoying it.
 
#50
FunkMetalBass said:
Get a 32-band EQ and use that for final tone adjustments. If you're boosting the mids, but they sound too clanky, they might be set between 800Hz and 1.2kHz. You might fancy having a 400-700Hz adjustment instead.
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Again, no offense... if I had to use anywhere approaching that large an EQ, I have the wrong gear. IME if you combine the right gear (meaning nothing way out of the range you can deal with) with a competent player, all of that is not needed.
 
#51
There is chasing the tone you like on its own, in the mix, in the final recording, through the PA, and any combination thereof.

Its the chase, not the destination. Usually for me, the issue is getting the guitar player and keyboard player to clean up their tone. That's a whole world in and of itself.
 
#52
Pilgrim said:
The endless search for tone is pointless. There is no ultimate tone, and it's a huge waste of time trying to gain 1% more than what you have.

Play. Drink beer. Enjoy. Hands off the EQ.
Click to expand...

+ 1 to this and the others who've reinforced it. My main goal, gigging, is to be able to hear myself clearly and articulately. I feel the tone is largely out of my hands (so to speak) due to the many variables already pointed out by others in this thread.

It's not that I don't have a tone in my head or care about how I sound. Of course I do. Me and the other bass player who might be in the room! :D
 
#53
Brad Johnson said:
I would hate to gig like that. No offense. I've come to realize that if I'm happy, the rest falls into place. Not the other way around.
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Sorry, just reality. imho a good musician can make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t. I've had gigs playing a supplied backline that I wasn't thrilled with. Turns out if I just concentrated on the music instead of *my* tone pretty much everybody was happy.

Of course that doesn't stop me from chasing tone, but I still realize that in the end it isn't that big of a deal...
 
#54
Brad Johnson said:
Again, no offense... if I had to use anywhere approaching that large an EQ, I have the wrong gear. IME if you combine the right gear (meaning nothing way out of the range you can deal with) with a competent player, all of that is not needed.
Click to expand...

I like being able to tone shape, and used to look at a graphic EQ as a necessity. I find that to be less and less the case as I have tried different basses and adjusted my technique. IN a nutshell, a big +1 to all Brad has said thus far. Side note, if you choose to use lots of EQs I am not condemning, but for me that's just too much fiddling around with stuff. If I wanted to adjust sliders all day I'd have been a sound engineer.
 
#55
Pilgrim said:
The endless search for tone is pointless. There is no ultimate tone, and it's a huge waste of time trying to gain 1% more than what you have.

Play. Drink beer. Enjoy. Hands off the EQ.
Click to expand...

I want to do this, but it's very difficult for me. I have gone through all kinds of gear. I am never happy. Thing is, most of the time, I'm the only one who thinks there's anything wrong with my tone. Most people I play with say my tone is fine.

I'm frustrated right now. I don't like my tone, and I don't really know why. It may be my bass. It doesn't sound right to me through my amp, the PA at church, anywhere. I am thinking about switching to the opposite of my stuff. I have been using active 5 strings for years. Maybe it's time for a passive 4.

My amp is a GB Shuttle combo. Nice amp, but again, I'm not sure what I don't like about it.

I do wish I could just play and be happy. I just always think I need to sound better. I'm not the "first call" guy but I do get called for fill in and other work along with my 3 regular bands and I want to sound good. On one hand I think I should have boutique stuff. On the other, I think I should be able to sound fine with a Squier or something. I mean, if you call me to play with you and I show up with a Squier and a 15 watt combo what are you going to think - even if I can play the crap out of them.
 
#56
Brad Johnson said:
Again, no offense... if I had to use anywhere approaching that large an EQ, I have the wrong gear. IME if you combine the right gear (meaning nothing way out of the range you can deal with) with a competent player, all of that is not needed.
Click to expand...

I'd take a cab that is efficient and can cleanly reproduce most frequencies and use a nice EQ to tune it to my preference. Others may prefer the sound of a stock Ampeg 8x10. To each his own.
 
#57
ricky-gervais.jpg


Different points to be made. . .

Sorry... had to do it.

Seriously though, many good points already. Talkbass is a fantastic community. It can also be the bane of one's tonal existence (slight exaggeration, maybe). The problem with the tone you're chasing is that only you can "hear it" in your head.

I have found "my" tone in a used Valenti after having owned Fodera, Elrick, Sadowsky, etc... My tonal adjustments consist of rolling the passive tone knob up or down occasionally.

One thing I haven't seen addressed yet, is that the Music Man/P bass tone may not be for you. You may prefer a Jazz once you get it into the mix, or possibly a Smith, etc... It's my opinion that if you are using a quality in-ear system, what you should be getting from the board is a flat representation of what your bass sounds like. That's an excellent place to start. If you can't get it sounding good in your ears, it may be that the bass isn't for you, or that your technique takes work (no shame in that, we can ALL use work on technique).

The amplification thing throws another wrench into the mix. I actually got some very good responsive in-ears and bagged my stage rig at church (LMII and Epifani UL-210S1). Why? Because the "pure," flat tone of my bass running through a Countryman DI and into the board with no EQ, is the tone I hear in my head.

I spent years playing 12's because I love low end. I was never satisfied because they lacked the definition I wanted. So, I moved to 10's. Voila. It just takes time and experimentation.

I believe most of this is going to come down to some searching, and possibly some cash expended on your part to figure out. I personally believe the 100% is possible. I'm there with my fretted 5. I now have to get there with a fretless, but my experience over the years will help me to have ruled out a large number of basses, pickups, etc... but that's another story. Now, my amp doesn't sound as "pure" as the in-ears. To get there, I'd probably have to shell out for some reference monitor-esque cabinets, a pre, etc... and I don't gig enough to justify it.

I'm sure that wasn't helpful, but at least you killed a few minutes reading.
 
#58
SteveC said:
On one hand I think I should have boutique stuff. On the other, I think I should be able to sound fine with a Squier or something.
Click to expand...

Well I'd say avoid the boutiques until you're sure about the kind of sound you need. You could then be out thousands of bucks and still not sound the way you want to.

How about the scientific approach? One way that worked for me:
- Identify other players who get the sound I'm after or close to it.
- investigate their gear and techniques.
- try their basses and look at their approaches.
- if it works, adopt to fit as needed.
- if not, repeat.

It's like Billy Sheehan says - he stole everything he does on the bass (or almost everything). Or Victor Wooten - first we imitate the ones who influence us and then we make it our own.

IOW, it's perfectly ok to steal and thieve as necessary when you're at an impasse with a sound, technique etc. There's nothing mystical about it, just try different things until you find something that works or gets close to it.

LS
 
#59
nostatic said:
Sorry, just reality. imho a good musician can make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t. I've had gigs playing a supplied backline that I wasn't thrilled with. Turns out if I just concentrated on the music instead of *my* tone pretty much everybody was happy.

Of course that doesn't stop me from chasing tone, but I still realize that in the end it isn't that big of a deal...
Click to expand...

Again, fortunately not my reality.
:cool:

On a rare occassion I might get truly crappy backline. That is pretty rare though.
 

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