Double Bass Full Circle vs Realist for new Cleveland

[pjhandlin]

Hello all. I am patiently waiting for my NS Cleveland and want to ask everyone here about the differences between the Full Circle and the Realist.

I will likely be using spirocores and play through:

Clarus
WW Ultra
Thunderfunk

Acme B1 (one or two)
HT112 (one or two)
Epi 410UL

I dont prefer to use the TF+410UL for DB gigs. This only happens with big parties or wedding receptions where I know most of the night will be loud pop/dance where my Sadowsky 5'er will shine- DB use is minimal but have tried it once in a while.

I play a mix of private/corporate gigs, wedding receptions and small clubs/bars. Our group is a keyboard driven trio (sometimes quartet) and we cover standards, swing, as well as pop/rock/top 40. For bars and small club gigs we take requests all night and depending on the audience we may play standards all night or no jazz at all. I also freelance occasionally with straight ahead groups and have been working with singer-songwriters as well.

The Cleveland hopefully will eliminate the need for amplification when I'm playing where we match to acoustic piano sound level. No matter how high I set my action, my current bass just sounds constricted and despite the best efforts of my local luthier, it doesnt look like it will get any better (he offered that possibly graduating the excessively thick top may help but the heavy lacquer finish was a problem as well).

I'm unhappy with my sound and it usually takes some amplification for me to be heard.


So would most here recommend one pickup over the other?

I would like to get some feedback. I currently use Underwood and purchased a Rev Solo but cant get it to sound right with my current bass yet. No real experience with either the Realist or Full Circle but from my reading here I anticipate the Realist would balance a bit more toward a large, diffuse lows sound vs a more balanced and articulate tone from the FC. What would work best with the Cleveland?

Thanks for the help!

 

[mchildree]

Hang on to that Rev Solo and try it on your Cleveland. That pickup has worked very well for me and my Cleveland ply.

 

[Uncletoad]

Hello all. I am patiently waiting for my NS Cleveland and want to ask everyone here about the differences between the Full Circle and the Realist....snip......
I play a mix of private/corporate gigs, wedding receptions and small clubs/bars. Our group is a keyboard driven trio (sometimes quartet) and we cover standards, swing, as well as pop/rock/top 40. For bars and small club gigs we take requests all night and depending on the audience we may play standards all night or no jazz at all. I also freelance occasionally with straight ahead groups and have been working with singer-songwriters as well.

Those gigs sound very similar to mine.

I have tried both pickups on my Cleveland. I prefer the Full Circle. It's tighter and more focused on the lows. It sounds big as hell like the Realist but maybe a bit more articulate. The Realist I have is older so I don't know if that matters or not.

They are more similar than different. I have the Realist as a backup for the Full Circle if I need it.

Neither suck and you'd probably be fine with either.

There was a thread at some point where sombody recorded the same playing on two separate tracks with the Full Circle and the Realist. Most folks liked the Full Circle.

I have thought about rigging up a bunch of pickups on my bass and doing the same thing.

I've not tried the Rev Solo. I've used an Underwood and a Bassmax on that bass as well and of them all the Full Circle sounds the best to me.

 

[Randy Ward]

pjhandlin;
I too am waiting for a Cleveland, maybe we need to start a Support group!

I asked Arnold to load mine with a Full Circle. I played Macmrkts gut strung Cleveland through his MARKBASS set up and that's what he had on and I liked how it sounded and responded. Also I've noticed both Uncle Toad and Chris Fitzgerald ended up with them on their new standards after trying other stuff. I've been selling gear to pay for the bass but I kept a BASSMAX, a REV solo and a Realist and I am going to put them all through their paces on the day when I finally get my bass. Good luck on yours and I hope the wait isn't too bad.

 

[mesmithnm]

I can't speak to the Cleveland (I've got FC's on an early 50's Kay and on a carved german factory bass from the 50's (that's 1950's ) but I found the FC to be the best choice for an all-around low-hassle pickup. I used a realist on both basses and got a good sound, but the FC works much better when I need to play relatively loud. If you think you'll be in situations where you might have to crank your DB (and it sounds like you play where you need to be ready for anything) I would recommend the FC over the realist. I can get more volume with more clarity and almost never feedback.

Mark

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

There was a thread at some point where sombody recorded the same playing on two separate tracks with the Full Circle and the Realist.

Indeed. While it wasn't scientific, I thought it was a good representation of the sound of both p'ups.

 

[B. Graham]

I've never tried the Full Circle, but I do have one of the new Realists on my carved Eastman and I'm REALLY liking it. Better signal output, still sounds like a very accurate representation of the basses acoustic characteristics.

 

[bolo]

Hang on to that Rev Solo and try it on your Cleveland. That pickup has worked very well for me and my Cleveland ply.

Has anyone done an A/B comparison of the Full Circle to the Rev SOLO on their New Standard? mchildree?

I've never tried the Full Circle, but I liked the Man from U.N.C.L.E.'s description of its sound. I have a Kolstein adjustable bridge with hardwood adjusters on my current bass, making the FC a no go for now.

pjhandlin - Sorry for the slight detour. I plan to order a Cleveland too this summer. Mucho congrats on yours.

 

[mchildree]

No, I haven't tried a Full Circle myself althought I'd like to. When I got my Cleveland in 2003, they were only making the FC in the smaller diameter adjusters, and Arnold was installing larger ones. I didn't want to mess with my bass that much, so I've been using the bridge wing pickups.

I believe I've seen that Fishman is now making the FC with the larger adjusters. Can anyone (Arnold?) confirm this? If I could find a direct fit, I'd probably just buy a Full Circle.

 

[Aleph5]

I don't know about the diameters, but Wil had my Cleveland fitted w/ a FC almost exactly 2 yrs ago (Happy Birthday #152!), and it wasn't the first one they had done. Maybe they just changed to smaller threads for their bridges (?), which would make it hard for earlier Clevelands to be retrofitted w/ FCs like mine. I don't know.

I picked the FC because it was getting raves, mostly here, it was affordable, and I didn't have to install it since my bass was being built for me. I've not tried the Realist, but I love the FC. Maybe Dave Peeples could comment. Believe he's used 'em both.

 

[Uncletoad]

Indeed the adjusters stock on my Cleveland bridge were larger than what was available in FC threading choices.

I don't believe the FC production sizes have changed yet. I don't know if NS boys are doing different adjuster sizes.

Nnick installed helicoil inserts (automotive thing) to adapt to the Full Circle diameter. That works very well. Just screw in the appropriate one (I forget what it its) and wick a tiny bit of super glue in the wood surrounding the coil to freeze it up from moving. I clipped off the screw-in tab so I could screw down past its length if I wanted to drop the string height significantly. We mused about using two lengths but chickened when we got worried about alignment. As it turns out I think one give plenty of adjustment room for me. I can go from stupid low (4-7mm) to higher than I can play (9-12mm) and it is stable.

Seems to work quite well.

 

[mchildree]

I'm familiar with Helicoils (stripped out too many engine block screws in my youth). Nnick, do you remember what size you used?

 

[pjhandlin]

Thanks everyone!

After reading the comments so far and after following the link to the Full Circle vs Realist shootout I am almost certain that I will order the Full Circle.

I was shocked. When I first listened to the head the head to head recording I was ready to put money down on #1 Realist, #2 FC. I have heard a realist live in a few situations and never expected the FC to sound deeper and more full throughout the lows and low mids.

It seems that for higher volume requirements the FC may perform better than the Realist.

Now I need to go learn more about the Full Circle.. don't know too much about it. Is it hot and tons of headroom? What is the best input impedance to match it? Will it sound better with Woods preamp or AI Clarus?

After a while you find what works... and I know how to get my current bass sounding ok with my underwood. Probably why I am still not loving the Rev Solo yet.

 

[Uncletoad]

It seems that for higher volume requirements the FC may perform better than the Realist.

I think so.

Now I need to go learn more about the Full Circle.. don't know too much about it. Is it hot and tons of headroom? What is the best input impedance to match it? Will it sound better with Woods preamp or AI Clarus?

Big can of worms there fella. Lots of ongoing discussion about that. The preamp thread split from the belchfest is interesting. The belchfest thread is interesting. Both basses at the belchfest wore full circles. Also search "Full Circle" and read all the threads on them. Should answer lots of that. I'd read through all that stuff and ask questions about what doesn't make sense.

 

[Uncletoad]

I'm familiar with Helicoils (stripped out too many engine block screws in my youth). Nnick, do you remember what size you used?

Full Circle is 1/4x20. The bridge adjusters in NS basses are 5/16x?. Probably a 1/4 20 that fits in a 7/16 hole.

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I don't remember doing any drilling though. Hmmnn....

I should probably shut up and let Nnick or Aarnold field that question.

 

[winston]

Hi, pjhandlin. I have a ply Cleveland and didn't like the Realist that came with it. Haven't tried the Full Circle, but have had good results with Schertler Stat-B, Rev Solo, Underwood, and BassMax pickups. I also use Spirocores.

Just curious--how do you like the Thunderfunk/Bergantino HT-112 setup for DB?

 

[pjhandlin]

Hi, pjhandlin. I have a ply Cleveland and didn't like the Realist that came with it.....

Could you expand on what the Realist was like compared to your preferred pickups?

 

[pjhandlin]

Hi, pjhandlin. I have a ply Cleveland and didn't like the Realist that came with it. Haven't tried the Full Circle, but have had good results with Schertler Stat-B, Rev Solo, Underwood, and BassMax pickups. I also use Spirocores.

Just curious--how do you like the Thunderfunk/Bergantino HT-112 setup for DB?

I have gigged TF with both the HT112 (both one cab and two) and 410UL. Did not like the tone with either combination with DB. Love the Thunderfunk set flat with EB into either setup vs the WWU or Clarus. It has been a different story so far with DB. It might be my bass or pickup configuration.

I have read numerous positive posts about using the Thunderfunk with DB on this side of the forum. When compared to my other options it is not on the same level of plug and play as the Clarus or the WWU. Maybe if I eq'd more I could find what I'm looking for?

 

[musicman5string]

There was a thread at some point where sombody recorded the same playing on two separate tracks with the Full Circle and the Realist. Most folks liked the Full Circle.

It's funny... I listened to those clips again and I still prefer the Realist to the Full Circle; I know I'm in the minority here, but I'll tell you why I prefer it: While the Realist, on that clip anyway, sounds clanky and a little harsh and the Full Circle sounds rounder and more smooth, my feelings are that in a band setting the Realist is gonna cut through more, whereas all that bottom on the FC is gonna get lost.
I don't have any personal experience with the FC, but I can say that 7 out of 10 times I'll go with my Underwood, whcih is even more clanky and harsh, than my Realist, just because it fits in the mix live better.
Perhaps the original TB'er who did the comparison can say what he thinks about those 2 pu's live.


Remember, it doesn't matter what the PU sounds like by itself; it matters what it sounds like combined with other instruments...which is why we're using PU's in the first place.

 

[Uncletoad]

my feelings are that in a band setting the Realist is gonna cut through more, whereas all that bottom on the FC is gonna get lost.

Not my experience. I've used both on gigs on the Cleveland Bass. I think the Realist gets muddy and diffuse. Full Circle is tight and focused. It's feedback threshold is much higher than the Realist. The latter tends to howl when things get loud. The FC gets big and strong. That is especially usefull on gigs with a dense mix. YMMV.