Full volume

[Bubonic420]

I recently started a band, and my guitar player plays extremely loud, and when I try to match him volume wise I’m running into the problem of frying speakers.
How can I achieve playing at full volume and not sounding like crap and blowing speakers?
Im running Ampeg pf800 head with GK GLX 8x10 4 ohm. I also run the pf 800 4x10 daisy chained into 2x15.
When I run the 8x10 it farts at full volume. Pulse I already fried 3 of the 8 speakers….
I just wanna play LOUD and not worry about damage.
Any input would be much appreciated.

stoner, doom, death metal.

 

[abarson]

No-one wins the volume wars, and everyone losses their hearing. I'll walk out on a band that can't control their volume.
Your guitarist is too loud. For everyone's sake and hearing, convince him to turn down.

 

[Bubonic420]

No-one wins the volume wars, and everyone losses their hearing. I'll walk out on a band that can't control their volume.
Your guitarist is too loud. For everyone's sake and hearing, convince him to turn down.

I’ve tried and tried to convince him to turn down. I’m about to start handing him the bill for the repairs lmfao!

 

[abarson]

I’ve tried and tried to convince him to turn down. I’m about to start handing him the bill for the repairs lmfao!

No, in all seriousness, give him the repair bills.
But there's no price to your hearing.

 

[Verb the Noun]

I recently started a band, and my guitar player plays extremely loud, and when I try to match him volume wise I’m running into the problem of frying speakers.
How can I achieve playing at full volume and not sounding like crap and blowing speakers?
Im running Ampeg pf800 head with GK GLX 8x10 4 ohm. I also run the pf 800 4x10 daisy chained into 2x15.
When I run the 8x10 it farts at full volume. Pulse I already fried 3 of the 8 speakers….
I just wanna play LOUD and not worry about damage.
Any input would be much appreciated.

stoner, doom, death metal.

I love loud music. Yeah, I wear ear plugs... but the FEEL of pants flapping and chest thumping is freakin cool.

That said, if 800 watts into an 8x10 and 2x15 are not loud enough? I'd be long gone. That is beyond excessive.

 

[Drredplate]

I love loud music. Yeah, I wear ear plugs... but the FEEL of pants flapping and chest thumping is freakin cool.

That said, if 800 watts into an 8x10 and 2x15 are not loud enough? I'd be long gone. That is beyond excessive.

Agree totally if that rig isn’t loud enough you are into permanent hearing damage territory.

 

[Drredplate]

@Bubonic420
What rig is the guitarist using?

 

[Verb the Noun]

in the 90s my band's neighbor in our lock out facility was band called DFA. Guitar ran 3 full stacks, bass ran 2svt heads driving 3 8x10s.

We stopped practicing on the days they did, we couldn't hear ourselves in OUR room when they were playing. There is not a CHANCE in hell any of those dudes can still hear now.

 

[Wood and Wire]

All of the above + High Pass Filter.

 

[Passinwind]

I recently started a band, and my guitar player plays extremely loud, and when I try to match him volume wise I’m running into the problem of frying speakers.
How can I achieve playing at full volume and not sounding like crap and blowing speakers?
Im running Ampeg pf800 head with GK GLX 8x10 4 ohm. I also run the pf 800 4x10 daisy chained into 2x15.
When I run the 8x10 it farts at full volume. Pulse I already fried 3 of the 8 speakers….
I just wanna play LOUD and not worry about damage.
Any input would be much appreciated.

stoner, doom, death metal.

Running a 4 ohm 810 already puts you at the lowest allowed impedance, unless I'm reading things wrong. If the 215 is also 4 ohms you're now at a 2 ohm load, no bueno.

 

[Wisebass]

Hi Bubonic420

I just wanna play LOUD and not worry about damage.

stoner, doom, death metal.

For stoner, doom and metal...

You need both sounds! Not just loud!

You need loud and louder! Get a bigger amp and bigger cabs and...

Steal his ear plugs!


greetings

Wise(b)ass

 

[Wood and Wire]

Running a 4 ohm 810 already puts you at the lowest allowed impedance, unless I'm reading things wrong. If the 215 is also 4 ohms you're now at a 2 ohm load, no bueno.

I think he was describing two different setups :

PF800 - 8x10 GK cab

Or

PF800 - 4X10 Ampeg cab + 2x15 cab (brand not mentioned)


I would expect running all those cabs at once, at 2 Ohms (I'm assuming the PF800 doesn't offer 2 Ohm operation, but I don't actually know) would damage the amp, not blow speakers.

 

[themickster]

I recently started a band, and my guitar player plays extremely loud, and when I try to match him volume wise I’m running into the problem of frying speakers.
How can I achieve playing at full volume and not sounding like crap and blowing speakers?
Im running Ampeg pf800 head with GK GLX 8x10 4 ohm. I

I recently started a band, and my guitar player plays extremely loud, and when I try to match him volume wise I’m running into the problem of frying speakers.
How can I achieve playing at full volume and not sounding like crap and blowing speakers?
Im running Ampeg pf800 head with GK GLX 8x10 4 ohm. I also run the pf 800 4x10 daisy chained into 2x15.
When I run the 8x10 it farts at full volume. Pulse I already fried 3 of the 8 speakers….
I just wanna play LOUD and not worry about damage.
Any input would be much appreciated.

stoner, doom, death metal.

Amps do not give a clean sound at full volume. You need a guitarist that isn't so far up himself that he can see out his mouth.

 

[Passinwind]

I think he was describing two different setups :

PF800 - 8x10 GK cab

Or

PF800 - 4X10 Ampeg cab + 2x15 cab (brand not mentioned)


I would expect running all those cabs at once, at 2 Ohms (I'm assuming the PF800 doesn't offer 2 Ohm operation, but I don't actually know) would damage the amp, not blow speakers.

I was put of by the PF800 410 reference, as I've never heard of that model and my Google-fu doesn't help. The owner's manual says 4 ohms minimum, but I don't actually know beyond that either. Amps cutting out or power throttling and then cycling back in a high volume could definitely take speakers out, I reckon. I have a few friends in that sort of situation, four 8x10s ought to about cover it. But we need to know the impedances of whatever cabs are actually in use, first off.

 

[Killing Floor]

I’m 100% for playing loud and stacks are rock’n’roll. But if you are damaging speakers you have the wrong type or too few speakers. You could try a high pass filter but that only goes so far if your ultimate goal is to be a lot louder.

 

[logdrum]

I’m 100% for playing loud and stacks are rock’n’roll. But if you are damaging speakers you have the wrong type or too few speakers. You could try a high pass filter but that only goes so far if your ultimate goal is to be a lot louder.

I guess his hearing is second priority. We should give him more advice to get louder. Hearing safety was not his question anyway.

I say 2 Mesa Subway D800 - One powering 2 810's - the second 2 215's. have a DI go a small mixer powering 4 2000watt QSC's with a bunch of K12's and subs. Crowd the stage PA around the guitar player at ear level. You can have some for you as well. Learn ASL now because you need that to communicate later. Good luck. If it's not enough -- just double everything.

Bring tissues and disinfectant for bleeding eardrums. There is also a webinar on how to deal with cops being called at you. They do not understand ASL or may interpret your loud voice as aggression BTW, so wear a Kevlar vest just in case.

I think we got that covered. Unfortunately it wasn't just a matter of a couple WGS speakers. Do not listen to the IEM proponents.

 

[CTW68]

If you're blowing speakers with the setups you have, turn the bass down, the mids up, and add an HPF. Also, maybe discuss with the guitarist who gets what sonic space. Is the guitar bass heavy?

And wear earplugs. Pete Townsend taught me that a quarter century ago, and I still hear just fine.

 

[Wasnex]

You get +3dB from doubling the power. Starting with 1W, here is the sequence:

1W
2W
4W
8W
16W
32W
64W
128W
256W
512W
1024W
2048W

As you see, after you hit about 500W, it doesn't really make a lot of sense to keep doubling the power. FYI, I own and Ampeg SVT 8-Pro that is rated for 2,500W at 2 ohms, so it can be done.

The sensitivity rating of the cab is another factor. Say you have two cabs. One cab is rated 95dB 1W/m and the other is rated 103dB 1W/1m. This means if the first cab is fed 1Watt and the measurement is taken at 1 meter, you read 95dB. If the second cab is fed 1 Watt and the measurement is taken at 1 meter, you read 103dB.

In order for the first cab to play at 103dB, you need to feed it 8dB more power. So power must be increased by a factor of about ~6.31. No problem to go from 1W to 6W. But if you are starting at 400W, you need to increase the power to about 2,523.8W to get the desired 8dB...and this is probably not very reasonable. Chances are, either your amp won't have a enough juice or you speakers will not be able to handle it.

The point in the previous paragraph is to choose a cab with sufficient power handling and also the highest possible sensitivity rating. Then you don't need 2,500W to get loud.

The next thing to consider is what happens when you add a matching cab. Usually the connection to the amp will be in parallel. The impedance is cut in half, the power handling doubles, and the sensitivity goes up by about 3dB.

So let's assume your amp can safely push both cabs and provide 400W at 8 ohms and 800W at 4 ohms. Notice the amp provides 3dB more power at 4 ohms than 8 ohms.

Let assume we have two 8 ohm cabs with a 500W power rating and 95dB 1W/1m sensitivity.

Two cabs will present a 4 ohm load, handle 1000W and have a combined sensitivity rating of ~98dB 1W/1m. Notice two cabs have a ~3dB higher sensitivity rating than one cab.

With one cab at 400W the calculated SPL is ~121dB. Probably not even close to loud enough (IMHO).

Calculated SPL [Log(400) x 10] + 95 = ~121dB​

With two cabs at 800W the calculated SPL is ~127dB. If this is not loud enough, find another band.

Calculated SPL [Log(800) x 10] + 98 = ~127dB​

For fun, 800W into a cab with a 103dB 1W/1m sensitivity rating:

Calculated SPL = [Log(800) x 10] + 103 = ~132dB.​

 

[mdogs]

I recently started a band, and my guitar player plays extremely loud, and when I try to match him volume wise I’m running into the problem of frying speakers.
How can I achieve playing at full volume and not sounding like crap and blowing speakers?
Im running Ampeg pf800 head with GK GLX 8x10 4 ohm. I also run the pf 800 4x10 daisy chained into 2x15.
When I run the 8x10 it farts at full volume. Pulse I already fried 3 of the 8 speakers….
I just wanna play LOUD and not worry about damage.
Any input would be much appreciated.

stoner, doom, death metal.

Best I’ve got is for you to start learning sign language. You don’t actually think you will ever play outside of your mommy’s basement at that volume, do you?

 

[coy garcia]

good god...how does your singer and the PA keep up? I'd quit on the spot if an 810 215 couldn't keep up...I'd quit if my 112 couldn't keep up.