Full volume

[Bill Whitehurst]

Assuming the point of this loud playing is to get gigs, I will point out that most of them will be in bars.
Bars stay in business by selling drinks.
If they can't hear someone order and/or everyone leaves, they don't make any money.
At that point they WILL loose their sense of humor, fire you AND tell all the other bar owners in the area what a pain in the ass you are.

Save time, trouble, money and your hearing by turning way down now.

 

[Bruiser Stone]

stoner, doom, death metal.

As an aside: I think Chat GPT will soon invade our warm little TB refuge.

Don’t wimp out. Save up the $$$, Bubonic420. 4 fridges, 4 SVT’s. That’s only $8-10k, maybe less. A decent used car. The genre is all about excess.

Sleep, Austin City Limits, 1/25/18.
My ears rang for 3 days.
Mix in a Weedeater show. Electric Wizard. Jesus Lizard. Years of driving for business with blues and metal blasting through the speakers.

I’m 45. Maybe my family is increasingly weary with me asking them to repeat themselves. But what really frustrates me is playing in a blues jam and not being able to hear the difference between the key being called out in B, E or G.

But it was an awesome concert….

 

[Carl Hillman]

How do you know if you are locked in with the drummer?

Unless he's miked and going through a PA, I doubt you can hear him over the guitar and bass.

 

[Gorilla Monsoon]

Fire the drummer.

 

[alembicbones]

I vote Troll.

If not, I'm just sorry for the damage you are inflicting on yourself.

Bones

 

[Yobnwal]

Hearing loss is down the road, but tinnitus is just around the river bend

 

[Rip Van Dan]

No-one wins the volume wars, and everyone losses their hearing. I'll walk out on a band that can't control their volume.
Your guitarist is too loud. For everyone's sake and hearing, convince him to turn down.

This is sooooooooo true! I toured for 3-years with a nightclub group in the early 70's playing 5-nights a week, 50-weeks a year. Only played a 50-watt all-tube '66 Fender Bassman for about 2-months of that time before I had to upgrade to a piggy-back Standel amp to keep up with keys and guitars. Once I had that, it could bury anything, so never had "too little rig for the gig" again.

This was a powered speaker bass reflex cab. Everything that came out the back of the speakers was channeled around to 4 round ports stacked vertically next to the two 15's. The head only held the preamp to the powered cab and was super light. The powered cab was heavy and at least twice as deep as my Bassman was. This amp projected like you wouldn't believe. Somewhere between about 20 and 30 feet he just got tremendously loud.

I knew it was putting out a lot when I got within about 3 or 4-feet of the ports because it would flap my bell bottoms. But it didn't really sound as loud on stage. Virtually no one had a true FOH system back then. A small handful had a PA system for vocals. We had our own Kustom 412 towers for our PA that we took with us for vocals but beyond that we all supplied our own amplification. So you had to have good gear that could stand alone. There were no sound boards to plug into. In our group that was two Vox Super Beatle amps and one Standel MCIIb/SAM30b bass amp. Drums were strictly acoustic, but plenty loud. Didn't often leave the stage with my ears ringing but from time to time I did. Of course I was in my very early 20's and thought I was invincible, so didn't worry about it.

As a result, my hearing sucks. I hear fine across the bass, lo-mids, and high-mids, but a 3KHz, my hearing tanks. For some reason it comes back up momentarily around 5Khz and then tanks again. As a result if I want to hear music with clarity and definition I have to run the levels pretty high now. Did I mention that I wear hearing aids so I can understand what people are saying? Otherwise it sounds like they are mumbling. The only time I don't wear them, and was specifically told not to wear them, is when I am playing music because if I do, I may damage my hearing even more. So good ear plugs really are a much better, and less expensive choice, than hearing aids.

 

[Jeff Scott]

I guess his hearing is second priority. We should give him more advice to get louder. Hearing safety was not his question anyway.

Quoted for emphasis.

 

[fdeck]

If guitarist likes playing that loud, they're already deaf. Sorry, but this is hopeless.

You need to put your own interests first. This isn't worth sacrificing your hearing.

 

[rapidfirerob]

Seems like a troll. Hasn't chimed in since page 1.

 

[KellyC]

Synchronized pyrotechnic blasts trick the brain into believing that the bass punch is bigger than it is. When you hit the low E with a kick drum cymbal crash and gouts of flame a foot thick explode from the floor on either side of your cabs, the guitar player will shake with fear and usually roll over and show his belly in submission. Most rehearsal space rentals have acoustic ceiling tiles which should be somewhat flame resistant, but I would crack the windows to prevent a pressure blowout when you let the hellfire rip.

 

[gtirard]

Wait until this thread is 5 pages long, then show it to your guitarist, and ask him to read out loud each comment, and ask him once again to turn down.

If he doesn't: quit

 

[red_rhino]

No-one wins the volume wars, and everyone losses their hearing. I'll walk out on a band that can't control their volume.
Your guitarist is too loud. For everyone's sake and hearing, convince him to turn down.

You cannot win a volume war with a guitar player. Period. For every 4x10 cab you add, they only have to turn their amp up one notch and you're back to where you started.

I was in a similar situation with one band when I was 19. The guitar player was ridiculously loud and kept telling me to turn up. Fortunately, my amp wouldn't get any louder and that saved me.... somewhat. To this day, I wish I had quit sooner than I eventually did. I guarantee that if you don't make some kind of change, you will also wish the same someday.

 

[Jaygetsreal]

So glad I am only reading this thread not living it Hope you find a solution Link Removed

 

[ashtray]

First, wear earplugs - the filter type that cost $15-20, not the $1 foam ones. The filter type let you hear whispers, and it really knocks down the loud guitar. It lets a bunch of bass through too, so even if you can’t hear yourself in the room, with the ear filters you will be able to. Suggest your bandmates use them as well, bc hearing loss is real and that ringing never stops for the rest of your life.

You can also turn down your volume. My guitarist was super loud so I turned down. Then he complained he couldn’t hear me at all. I told him to turn down so he could hear me.

Your guitarist is likely blasting his kneecaps with his sound. Have him put his cab up at ear level - not waist level or chest level, but 6’ high up at his ears! Then he will hear himself real good and turn down.

As for blowing speakers, as you turn up volume, you need to turn down the bass eq knob. And even then, listen out for speaker damage before they blow. Mids are your friend for best volume without blowing cones. But seriously, wear ear plug. Can’t stress that enough.

 

[Alper Yilmaz]

Or he is hospitalized for serious hearing damage!

Seems like a troll. Hasn't chimed in since page 1.

 

[Coot]

I remember being in a war with our keys (Hammond B3 into 2x stacked Leslies and a 4x10 cab. The guitarist ran a Marshall 100 into a stack cranked.) I started off with an Acoustic 370 into a tub and ended up with 2x 370's into 2 tubs. Our earliest gigs were dances in Legion halls and high schools and we let er' rip. . When we went in the bars we were shut down big time by serving staff and managers. I got lucky and only have intermittent tinnitus. It comes and goes.. but when it's there ? Man..it's grim. Unfortunately, band mates will come and go but please look after your hearing , you have it for life.

 

[Bubonic420]

@Bubonic420
What rig is the guitarist using?

Depends on the day at the practice spot. Most days orange cr120 into an orange cab, maybe a 240watt cab??? Sometimes he goes full stack with two orange heads “slaved”

 

[Iristone]

First, is he hearing you too loud where he plays? Point your amp to you and away from him, and his amp to him away from you. Raising your speakers to ear-level also helps.
Second, be careful raising mids. A too-loud guitarist will almost invariably have too much boomy low-mids, and you're looking for trouble if you compete with him at THAT frequency. Your amp has the capacity of cutting low-mids or boosting hi-mids, though (and with some tweaking you could do both at the same time), so you should be able to get a forward but non-boomy midrange sound. I'd also reduce bottom and raise gain to compensate.
I'd also ditch the GK fridge for an Ampeg one. The other speakers are probably also damaged a bit, and may not stand up to prolonged loud playing.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

You get +3dB from doubling the power. Starting with 1W, here is the sequence:

1W
2W
4W
8W
16W
32W
64W
128W
256W
512W
1024W
2048W

As you see, after you hit about 500W, it doesn't really make a lot of sense to keep doubling the power. FYI, I own and Ampeg SVT 8-Pro that is rated for 2,500W at 2 ohms, so it can be done.

The sensitivity rating of the cab is another factor. Say you have two cabs. One cab is rated 95dB 1W/m and the other is rated 103dB 1W/1m. This means if the first cab is fed 1Watt and the measurement is taken at 1 meter, you read 95dB. If the second cab is fed 1 Watt and the measurement is taken at 1 meter, you read 103dB.

In order for the first cab to play at 103dB, you need to feed it 8dB more power. So power must be increased by a factor of about ~6.31. No problem to go from 1W to 6W. But if you are starting at 400W, you need to increase the power to about 2,523.8W to get the desired 8dB...and this is probably not very reasonable. Chances are, either your amp won't have a enough juice or you speakers will not be able to handle it.

The point in the previous paragraph is to choose a cab with sufficient power handling and also the highest possible sensitivity rating. Then you don't need 2,500W to get loud.

The next thing to consider is what happens when you add a matching cab. Usually the connection to the amp will be in parallel. The impedance is cut in half, the power handling doubles, and the sensitivity goes up by about 3dB.

So let's assume your amp can safely push both cabs and provide 400W at 8 ohms and 800W at 4 ohms. Notice the amp provides 3dB more power at 4 ohms than 8 ohms.

Let assume we have two 8 ohm cabs with a 500W power rating and 95dB 1W/1m sensitivity.

Two cabs will present a 4 ohm load, handle 1000W and have a combined sensitivity rating of ~98dB 1W/1m. Notice two cabs have a ~3dB higher sensitivity rating than one cab.

With one cab at 400W the calculated SPL is ~121dB. Probably not even close to loud enough (IMHO).

Calculated SPL [Log(400) x 10] + 95 = ~121dB​

With two cabs at 800W the calculated SPL is ~127dB. If this is not loud enough, find another band.

Calculated SPL [Log(800) x 10] + 98 = ~127dB​

For fun, 800W into a cab with a 103dB 1W/1m sensitivity rating:

Calculated SPL = [Log(800) x 10] + 103 = ~132dB.​

One of the useful SPL-related things to do is buy or borrow an SPL meter and put it on stage. Then cross-reference that against a sound exposure chart showing how many minutes you can play before risking permanent hearing damage (I'm guessing under 30 minutes). Then do the same for an audience location and suggest you need to offer the audience earplugs.

The naughty option is, over s period of weeks, start talking progressively more quietly to the guitarist and mumbling slightly.