fundamental frequncy cabinet design

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Cirk, Jan 8, 2014.

  1. Cirk


    Jan 16, 2011
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Yup, I know I'm probably get beaten over the head for this, but please indulge my curiousity. I'm looking to build a cab (or biamped cab set) that will respond down to a fundamental drop A (about 25hz IIRC) without dropoff. Light enough and small enough for reasonable transport and able to fit through an average sized door. Loud enough for a medium sized gig. Watts are pretty cheap these days, so efficiency is somewhat negotiable.

    I know the usual argument about the first harmonic will be used, but bear with me. It's just an experiment. All ideas are relevant here.

    Thanks in advance for your input. I can make some pretty good beer, but designing cabs is not something I know a ton about. If you want to drop by for a brew, ask Zooberwerx for directions.
  2. CL400Peavey

    CL400Peavey Supporting Member

    Nov 7, 2011
    Grand Rapids Michigan
    I suggest you start reading, and come back with some specific questions, as your post is really general right now. There are some experts here that could help you, but you have to ask the right questions. ;)
  3. will33


    May 22, 2006
    It would have to be a true subwoofer, biamped system.

    Even prosound subs are highpassed, usually around ~40hz or so.

    It could be done. It would be either...

    A. Not very loud.

    B. Won't fit through the door.

    C. Both A & B.
  4. Jools4001

    Jools4001 Supporting Member

    Offhand, the only cab I can think of that will produce those sort pf frequencies at anything approaching gig levels, and not cost an absolute fortune, is the self build Tuba 60 from Bill Fitzmaurice. According to the charts it should give about 95db/watt at 1 metre....but it is huge, as will be any cab that you want to go that low and loud.

    Smaller subs may do those frequencies for home theatre and the like, but they rely on the 'cabin gain' from smaller rooms

    Other reflex cabs with 18 and even 21 inch drivers may also get there but they'll likely be megabucks.

    You're really in the realms of BIG PA subs here rather than bass cabs
  5. Cirk


    Jan 16, 2011
    Pittsburgh, PA
    CL400Peavey, I left this as wide open as possible in order to allow for lots of perspectives. Yes, this is a true subwoofer that will have to be biamped.

    Thanks for the replies folks, keep the ideas coming!
  6. Mr. Foxen

    Mr. Foxen Commercial User

    Jul 24, 2009
    Bristol, UK
    Amp tinkerer at Ampstack
    Might want to start figuring a bass with significant output in the fundamental. Get a whole bunch of drop off from the pickup not being under the middle of the string.
  7. wcriley


    Apr 5, 2010
    Western PA
    Buy or build the largest Tuba you can move through anticipated doorways.
  8. Define "reasonable transport." You could probably build something tall, narrow and deep to get it to fit through doors. But you'll need a van. It'll be large. Like a big filing cabinet.
  9. Mr. Foxen

    Mr. Foxen Commercial User

    Jul 24, 2009
    Bristol, UK
    Amp tinkerer at Ampstack
    Think you need multiple tuba's coupled for best effect.
  10. will33


    May 22, 2006
    +1 to the Tuba.

    Not a lot can reach that low, at least not affordably or loud enough. Maybe BagEnd's ELF system or something really highend like from Danley Labs or something like that.

    The Tuba60 is about your best chance of getting there without taking out a second mortgage.
  11. Passinwind

    Passinwind I Know Nothing Supporting Member Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics :cool:

    PM Skip from Knuckle/CircleK/Kalium (knucklehead on TB). He's been working on more rational, cost effective amplification solutions pretty hard lately. From playing through some of his basses in a club environment I would say that good room treatment is likely to be quite important, and probably not cheap. Smaller venues may actually work to your advantage in this case.

    Have fun!
  12. will33


    May 22, 2006
    Pretty cool.

    I didn't see the power level used for their 2 meter measurement (it's an all-in-one, powered, DSP adjusted unit), and I'd wonder about how it handles live bass playing though. Surely there's some limiting/damage control programmed in the DSP?

    Interesting find.
  13. xk49w

    xk49w Supporting Member

    The TC Ultra5400 could probably do it (fs 20.5Hz, xmax 33.7). Pricey thing though. And heavy, 86 lb. Cabinet sizes listed on the site.
  14. BassmanPaul

    BassmanPaul Gold Supporting Member

    Aug 25, 2007
    Toronto Ontario Canada
    Just about any of Andy lewis' Acme designs will get you close.

    Did someone mention BEER???? :D
  15. I have an older cylinder sub, I have taken to a couple gigs as a sub for the PA. They sound really sweet but the sub frequencies from bass and kick drove people out of the room. After turning it WAY down it sounded glorious. The drivers are not available on the open market and have massive throw. Excellent value and dangerous to wall hangings if not used properly
  16. will33


    May 22, 2006
    Neat. I'll have to put that one on my "don't forget to remember this" list.
  17. AlexanderB


    Feb 25, 2007
    The old "even big PAs are high passet at 40 Hz anyway" parroting gets more and more wrong every day.
    Even mainstream pop like Justine Bieber has lots of 30-ish Hz energy today. So do installed dance club rigs, PAs on live electronic/dance oriented festivals, big DJ events and also some live pop/rock acts with "regular" bass players.
    Tiesto who is a big name in the DJ scene has a technical rider including rigs that are really powerful at 30Hz and takes full use of them. His Music often runs below 20Hz at high levels.

    The top brands in PA have plenty of loud and deep sub bass bins, although VERY expensive and cumbersome. But they kick out 130dB+ (some much more) in the 30Hz range and below. Speakers for big movie theatres is also a valid option.

    Check out Bassmaxx, Danley sound labs, JBL, Meyer, Ciare - what the heck, even Peavey make some pretty decent sub woofer drivers nowadays...
  18. Cirk


    Jan 16, 2011
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I couldn't imagine Col. Claypool being cut off at 40hz. Just wouldn't work.

    BTW, check out the Frog Brigade playing "the Spirit of Radio" sometime.
  19. will33


    May 22, 2006
    I should qualify it by adding "mine" is highpassed, as is every other I've seen, and every one I've read advised operation or "how-to" manuals on. It's for protection of subwoofers and making use of power where it matters.

    Then again, I couldn't care less about what Justin Bieber or some techno DJ boom-boom dance club is doing and I don't run arenas. :D